I have no idea what you mean by "the kids" and "disneyland".

Surely, even a skirmish game looks like a war game?

_________________
Check out my youtube channel for Tutorials, Battle reports and other stuff in both 6mm and 28mm

www.youtube.com/user/ManticMoments

No L4 likes to rag on anything that doesn't have proper camo as being for kids and is thus not a proper wargame.


Shall we actually get back ON TOPIC?

_________________
He's a lawyer and a super-villian. That's like having a shark with a bazooka!

-I HAVE NO POINT
-Penal Legion-Fan list
-Help me make Whitescars not suck!

Regarding military eras, part of the point of the 40k universe is that it mashes them all up, Epic in particular. Guard as your WWII force, Marines closer to a modern army, Eldar and Tau as actual future SF.

_________________
The Wargaming Trader
NetEA Death Guard Army Champion

My opinion does not have to be universal ... I must learn not to be critical of anything from/about GW, Epic, 40K, etc. ... Too many seem to see my comments "offensive" ...

However to answer your question ... SM2 was about selling lots of models painted in very bright colors [Disneyland]with "minimal" rules to appeal to a younger audience [kids]. As well as those who like that sort of gaming [some here ?]. Also note they were turning out some very poor examples of models for Epic, with SM2/TL, e.g. the Vindicator, Thunderhawk, etc. With the worse being the "Knights" looking more like someone in PA. Not a vehicle of some kind, IMO. And don't get me wrong. The Knights released at the end of the SM1 run were equally terrible if not more.

As I said, I started war gaming in the '60s. All eras, various scales, etc. I'm used to more complex, more "realistic", etc. rules system. Yes that even includes the sci-fi genre. And I'll admit Fantasy is really not in the range of my interests.

War gaming companies like AH, SPI, GDW, etc. produced war games that were more to the level of my 'liking", etc. And that is why I liked SM1 so much, many of the rules seemed to have that good mix of complexity, realism, etc. Which I had to do limited modifications. Like adding Unit Activation.

However SM1 turned out to be "half baked". When they decided to move in the SM2 direction. IMO, SM2 was a complete disappointment to me and some of my gaming crew. But again it was to appeal to a different target audience. After what I saw with SM1. It was a step in an entire other direction, IMO. One that I had little interest in.

But again to GW's credit, as they have said they were not primarily a war game company, per se. Models came first and game rules second. And they are in business to make a profit ... to stay in business, obviously. And the they eventually saw SM2/TL was their a biggest seller of all the iterations of Epic. And they saw that expanding their target audience, i.e. younger gamers, etc. That was the way to making bigger profits. I laud their business acumen, at that time.

Regardless, as I have said here before. The problem with asking a question, is that you may not get the answer you would like or prefer, etc., ... So I see my comments are not within what the majority's liking ... so I should not upset anymore GW Fans. As it seems to serve no real purpose ... To discuss the pros & cons of AT8mm or any other version of Epic.

_________________
Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

Yes, good point ... I am biased ... But yes lets get back OT ...

_________________
Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

Yes, I do generally agree with all that, with the overwhelmingly leaning to WWII, IMO ... But it's seems my comments are "offensive" ... so ... everybody should play any game they like ... I have to remember not to voice anything negative against GW, Epic, etc., etc., while on Tac Cmd ...

_________________
Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

So this is getting back on topic?

_________________
www.epic-uk.co.uk
NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion

I like robots as big as mountains and I cannot lie.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

The ball is in your court ... so move the ball in the direction you want ... I've been "benched" ...

_________________
Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

Hahaha! This one big robot is punching the other big robot!

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

E&C, you're in fine form today good sir!

_________________
He's a lawyer and a super-villian. That's like having a shark with a bazooka!

-I HAVE NO POINT
-Penal Legion-Fan list
-Help me make Whitescars not suck!

It's because a big robots game is coming back, and that is cool.

If they don't make spiky big robots, I will be sad.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

It sounds like the battle the game's based on took place late in the Heresy. There should be spikes by then! For some reason "topknots" popped into my head, but let's ignore that.

My guess is spikes won't happen unless the game really takes off. I'm a little skeptical.

just stop! take responsibility for your words instead of trying to switch the blame by basically saying 'poor me, everyone finds my comments offensive, it's clearly everyone else that has a problem and not me'

if you voiced your criticisms about GW in an actually critical way rather than this continual looking down your nose at not just the game itself but the people who choose to play the game, MAYBE you'd get a bit less flak and wouldn't have to play the 'wahh people found me offensive' card?

Yes we all know that it's madness to paint your armour in bright shiny colours, and that titans should behave like battleships and all the other stuff that is silly, but it's a future fantasy setting, it's literally made up, it's made up to entice 14 year old boys to collect and paint the toys, there are dozens of historical and alternative scifi/modern rulesets and mini manufacturers out there, go and paint and play those, or suspend your disbelief for 5 minutes that some of us don't CARE that it's not a f**king military simulation game, and having someone figuratively shaking their head and tutting at those of us who just want to have a bit of fun really sucks the enjoyment of out things.... the 40k universe is not, and has never been about realism..... you've got genetically engineered superhumans punching tanks with electric boxing gloves and fighting against artificially created fungus men who are designed only to fight fer chrissakes!!! it takes itself very seriously but surely it can be poked fun at in a way that doesn't disparage other people for how they choose to play the game

The game is basically a big anachronistic mashup of all human warfare and you painting stuff in camo and being all realistic about it is YOU not being true to the setting, not the other way round.... there are lots of people on these forums who have military backgrounds and/or interests in military history, yet they can see that the 40k universe doesn't cross into those realms and don't snort and laugh at it when someone paints their marines yellow or their eldar bright red

nobody is snorting at you for painting your marines in camo colours, I think it would be better for everyone if you returned the favour....

_________________
NetEA Space Marine, Imperial Fists and Blood Angels Army Champion

NetEA Red Corsairs Army Champion

My hobby/painting threads

Army Forge List Co-ordinator

L4, you're free to insult GW. It may result in some back and forth, but usually nothing heated. Belittling other players - i.e. us - results in stronger language. But hey, we're just sharing our opinions.