EpicA on E-bay (U.K.) |
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GlynG
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Post subject: EpicA on E-bay (U.K.)  Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 11:03 pm |
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Location: Bristol
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Having decided to get a new marine army with the shiny new models, I'm trying to plan out what I might want to take for it and seeing as I'll probably buy the models before I get a chance to play the game I thought I'd ask for some advice here see if you guys think the army list sounds ok:
3000pt Solar Guard Space Marine Army
(UPDATED VERSION OF LIST DOWN THREAD WANTING NEW COMMENTSES...)
Tactical Detachment(300) - 6 Razorbacks(+150) - 450pts
Devestator Detachment(250) - Dreadnought(+50), Hunter(+75) - 375pts
Scout Detachment(150) - Sniper(+25) - 175pts
Bike Detachment(200) - Chaplain(+50) - 250pts
Land Speeder Detachment(200) - 3 Typhoons(+75) 275pts
Whirlwind Detachment(300) - Hunter(+75) - 375pts
Predator Detachment(300) - 300pts
2 Marauder Destroyers(300) - 300pts
2 Warhound Titans(500) - 500pts
Total: 3000pts
(Just in case you were wondering about the number of Razorbacks the chapter is based in Earths Solar system and its in their background that they are particularly well equipped)
Comments/Suggestions?...
Glyn
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Legion 4
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Post subject: EpicA on E-bay (U.K.) Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2003 6:46 am |
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Location: Ohio - USA
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No Land Raiders, Vindicators, or Assault SMs ? And are you short Transport (Rhinos if not Raiders) for all your Infantry ? 
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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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Shadow Hunter
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Post subject: EpicA on E-bay (U.K.) Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2003 10:02 am |
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Location: Norton Canes, Cannock, Staffs, UK
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It looks okay, but you have bought a lot of upgrades (I'm assuming because you want to buy as many of the new things as possible  ) which means its even smaller than a marine army already is.
I dont think you need to upgrade 3 land speeders. 1 or 2 should be enough. Maybe keep 1 rhino in the tac unit to take hits/supression off of the razor backs. I'm not sure what scouts are like, I've never used them. Mainly because nothing about them stands out.
Maybe try only having thunderbolts instead of marauders, or even a Thunderhawk. This would all save points to buy another unit.
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nealhunt
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Post subject: EpicA on E-bay (U.K.) Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2003 6:19 pm |
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Location: Nashville, TN, USA
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That's very shooty for a marine force. That's not bad but you are going to have to watch out.
Marines shine in assault-heavy battles. With a heavy firepower version, you will not be able to go toe to toe with firepower, and you have lost some of your assault advantage, too.
In general, I'd say you will have to remain very mobile, probably doing at least one major redeployment during a game, in order to concentrate your firepower in a small area while presenting a small frontage of potential targets. If you get caught in a battle of attrition, you will lose.
It's almost an Eldar style of fight. With that in mind, I might drop the dread from the devastator detachment because it will hinder your mobility.
I'm also doubtful as to the effectiveness of mixed speeder formations, but it's worth a try.
Personally, I'm big proponent of plain old tacs, with a handful of commanders scattered around. They are just extremely tactically flexible.
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Neal
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Lalonde
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Post subject: EpicA on E-bay (U.K.) Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 8:47 pm |
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Hi there,
I'd agree with Neal on many points. I think it's far to shooty for a Marine list.
Definately drop the Dread from the Dev detachment, I used to have 2 as a matter of course in my Devs detachments, but some games the formation never got into a good firing position. Use the 50 points for a Chaplain or Captain in the Tact formation.
They do have their uses though, IMHO. If your going to garrison some Tact/Dev detachments then they will be fine, or if you're dropping in a Tact squad in pods. (they bolster the smaller, vehicleless unit)
I'd only use scouts in drop pods myself - a cheap harrassing unit to get crossfire bonuses for my advancing Tacts. I think it may have been Neal who inspired me to try that with posts elsewhere. ?
I think Termies are a must (just the one unit mind), they really worry opponents - especially IG ones.
I'm quite tempted to add an attack bike or LS Tornado to my formations just to give me the option to put a blast marker on a unit from a distance. Not sure 3 is the right number though.
I'd recommend more Tact formations above all else, maybe in a swap for the Preds. They really are the best marine unit. I always do better when I have at least 4 of them on the battlefield - If I had more available, i'd be tempted to use 6.
However if we all took exactly the Armies it would get very dull, very quickly ? ?So go for it, the shooty way, it will be a good challenge.
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Partly I guess but I'm basing my Epic army arround the same basic ideas as its planned 40K version and so am taking same sorts of things as that.
Maybe keep 1 rhino in the tac unit to take hits/supression off of the razor backs.It's probably be a good idea tactically speaking but I think I'll leave them as they are for background and differentiation reasons as my Chapter doesn't use Rhino's (with the possible exception of transporting scouts).
Maybe try only having thunderbolts instead of marauders, or even a Thunderhawk. This would all save points to buy another unit.Possibly, are Marauder's not any good? Pity, they're the only two models for the army I've already got so far (well apart from tons of plastic infantry), having bought two of the Huge ForgeWorld Marauder Destroyers.
However if we all took exactly the Armies it would get very dull, very quickly ? ?So go for it, the shooty way, it will be a good challenge. ? Exactly and I do like my armies to be a bit different and I want this to be a very shooty army, though I'm thinking about adding in another detachment of tactical marines and one of bikes to have some more numbers and punch in an assault...
Glyn
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nealhunt
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Post subject: EpicA on E-bay (U.K.) Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 3:23 pm |
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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
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Location: Nashville, TN, USA
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Marauders are fine as bombers. However, they are bombers and cannot be used to intercept other aircraft. 2 Hunters is probably sufficient AA for 3000 points, but switching to Thunderbolts would free up the points for changing them, and allow you to not take a Hunter (or two), freeing up more points.
The tradeoff, obviously, is that Marauders have more ground attack ability.
The extra points could buy more ground attack units, but they wouldn't have the Marauder's ability to hit anywhere on the board.
Basically, I'd say it's a balanced trade (as it should be).
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Neal
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GlynG
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Post subject: EpicA on E-bay (U.K.) Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2004 12:03 am |
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Location: Bristol
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Below is an ?updated version of my space marine list, please have a look and tell me what you think:
3000pt Solar Guard Space Marine Army
Bike Detachment(200) - Captain(+50) - 250pts
Bike Detachment(200) - Chaplain(+50) - 250pts
Tactical Detachment(300) - 6 Razorbacks(+150) - 450pts
Garrisoned Tactical Detachment(300) - Land Raider(100), 2 Dreadnoughts(100) - 500pts
Devestator Detachment(250) - 4 Razorbacks(100) - 350pts
Garrisoned Scout Detachment(150) - Sniper(+25) - 175pts
Garrisoned Land Speeder Detachment(200) - Typhoon(+25) 225pts
Predator Destructor Detachment(300) - 300pts
Thunderbolt Detachment(150) - 150pts
Warhound Titan(250) - 250pts
Total: 3000pts
(Nb. all Razorbacks are twin lascannon varient)
This army is basically how I envisage my Chapters third company fighting with a few attached detachments and titan. I've consulted second edition codex Ultramarines for a guide to how a company should look and its as much based on what feels right and looks good as what wins tournaments. Its mostly a fairly shooty force although I do have bikes and tactical guys for assaults. Just want to check out if it looks alright or check if there any major problems with it, as I've not played as yet and I'm planning to probably place a advanced order for much of it while I'm in work Thursday night...
Glyn
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Legion 4
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Post subject: EpicA on E-bay (U.K.) Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2004 7:04 am |
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Location: Ohio - USA
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Hmmm ... after 12 years of Epic gaming and 100s of battles, I must have it all wrong !? Since all 6 of my SM Rgts and 5 Traitor SM Bns ALL have Land Raiders, Vindicators, Assault Marines and Terminators (somewhere in their TO&Es) ... but ... what do I know ?! 
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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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Chris
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Post subject: EpicA on E-bay (U.K.) Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2004 6:20 pm |
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I agree with you there Tas, I would have taken some Land Raiders and Terminators with that force.
I don't think I would ever take a force without Terminators now! I even thought about taking nothing else once, other than Land Raiders that is.
Cheers
Chris
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Chris
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nealhunt
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Post subject: EpicA on E-bay (U.K.) Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2004 8:03 pm |
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Location: Nashville, TN, USA
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I think it looks good.
The only thing I might change would be the garrison detachment, but it depends on how you intend to use it. Making it devastator detachment would make it more shooty, but less flexible. And I would have a Hunter model waiting in the wings to replace the LR if you might face an air-heavy opponent.
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Neal
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Legion 4
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Post subject: EpicA on E-bay (U.K.) Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2004 8:16 pm |
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GlynG
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Post subject: EpicA on E-bay (U.K.) Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2004 10:59 pm |
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Hmmm ... after 12 years of Epic gaming and 100s of battles, I must have it all wrong !? ?Since all 6 of my SM Rgts and 5 Traitor SM Bns ALL have Land Raiders, Vindicators, Assault Marines and Terminators (somewhere in their TO&Es) ... ?but ... what do I know ?! |
No, no! I'm not trying to suggest that your doing anything wrong- if you like using those sorts of units then thats good for you, if I appear to be ignoring some of your advice its only because I want to do my army in a different sort of theme or way and I mean no slight to your gaming knowledge and experience.
If you don't use Land Raiders, Terminators or Assault SMs, you are loosing some of their basic capabilities. |
The basic capabilities of those units do you mean or the army as a whole? Surely their one of many different ways of doing a Space Marine army? In general I tend to prefer shooty stuff with more troops and less elite troops.
Terminators seem to be a good choice as many people have been suggesting them and I'll probably get some at some point (I've even been thinking about how I can convert assault cannons for when I do), but they are meant to be quite rare (less than 1 in 10 Marines have access to Terminator armour) so I don't immediately want them in my starting force.
I'd dump 1 of the bike dets. ? I'd find a better use for 250 pts.?Can't I use Bikes in the sort of role you'd be suggesting for assault marines though? The two units seem pretty similat statwise, bikes on the plus side are faster, cheaper and having a better FF than Assault Marines though they are mounted and lack the Jumpacks. Is there anything else that I'm missing that makes Assault Marines better than bikes apart from the ability to Jump over terrain when they move and ride arround in transport vehicles?
The only thing I might change would be the garrison detachment, but it depends on how you intend to use it. ?Making it devastator detachment would make it more shooty, but less flexible.Maybe, I think I'll stick with the more flexible tactical marines for the moment and see how things go, I've got a fair ammount of other shooty things in the army anyway.
And I would have a Hunter model waiting in the wings to replace the LR if you might face an air-heavy opponent. I was hoping the 2 Thunderbolts could protect me from enemy aircraft, should I ?still take a Hunter or two as well?...
Glyn
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Legion 4
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Post subject: EpicA on E-bay (U.K.) Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2004 12:09 am |
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Well I was trying to be humorously sarcastic ...  Well the Land Raider is a unique vehicle that combines the MBT and IFV classes. No other Epic Army (save for possibly the Eldar Falcon/Wave Serpent, depending on what rules you play) have an AFV with those capabilities. A lot of firepower there and as the "old hands" on this site know, I'm all about firepower. I don't even put a C/Cbt Wpns on my Titans ! Terminators are the ParaCommandoes of my SM forces, they can teleport in behind enemy lines and take care of their pesky FA, HQs, etc., etc. They are the hallmark of the SMs along with the Land Raiders. Assault SMs (ASM), don't need to ride in vehicles, and they can jump over certain terrain, that's the point ... bikes can't do that. Bikes and ASM can work togther and act like Cav to maneuver to the flanks. However, ASMs can cross rivers, cliffs etc. While we're at it, all SMs (other that ASMs) need to be mounted in APCs/IFVs, ie. Rhinos, Razorbacks and Land Raiders. Mech Forces can move faster than troops on foot, and can keep up with armored units, forming combined arms teams and TFs. (I know, I commanded a Mech Co.) Vindicators provide close support/firepower to those Tms/TFs. It's all about combined arms and firepower. SMs don't have a lot of FA, save for Whirlwinds (plus M/Mortars and T/Guns, if you are "old school", and I am ! ) So Vindys and T/hawks help to make up for that. That's just my take on it ...
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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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And not to mention I'd dump 1 of the bike dets. I'd find a better use for 250 pts.