Tactical Command
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Specialist Pic of the day sightings
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=746		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  thepanu [ Wed Dec 17, 2003 7:32 am ]
Post subject:  Specialist Pic of the day sightings
I got blown to atoms last night in a game against Teekkaris Guard forces. We agreed to try game with single objective, complete and utter destruction of the other side. We decided that 5 turns would be more than enough and after that we would count the casulties and decide the winner.

Well, before turn 4 ended I had nothing in the table. Not a single tinyplasticork.

We agreed that I need to make some changes to my list, altough my tactical decisions were not supported by my dice rolls. I think I haven't ever seen so many ones in one game.

My forces:

Great Gargant

Warband
+ 4x Battlewagon
+ 1x Gun Fortress
+ 1x Big Gun

Stormboyz

KoS
+ 4x bikes

Huge Blitz Brigade
+ 1x Gun Fortress
+ 1 Oddboy

Stompamob
+ 4x Stompas
+ 4x Dreadnoughts

Total of 3000p

Teekkari had the usual, one mech company, some SHT's, Russ Company few sentinels and a Warlord.

I think I need to split those bigger formations to smaller ones to get more activations. And ditch those bikes in favor of buggys and/or scorchas.

Comments appreciated.
Author:  Shadow Hunter [ Wed Dec 17, 2003 9:38 am ]
Post subject:  Specialist Pic of the day sightings
I'll try to help, but I haven't played that many games myself.

I think you'r right with the KoS.  With mine I'm sticking to buggies and Skorchas, and they are doing fine.  At the moment I use a Big KoS, and just a few scorchas.  I leave these at the back (so they are surpressed) until I'm really close to the enemy, then move them to the front.

Your Stompa Mob is very expensive.  I would be temtpted to drop one or two Stompas from it, and add to your warband, which is a little small.

I personally dont find the BB very useful.  I do have a Big BB, but two of them are flakwagonz for my aircover.  I am even thinking of dropping them for a garrisoned big gunz mob.  I think that would probably be a much better unit.

Do you need the Great Gargant?  A regular one is still pretty good, and saves you a lot of points to spend on more units.

I dont think its a bad list, as you said, you had a lot of bad luck.  Just try moving things around a little to see if it makes any difference.  I would try a regular Gargant, though, and use the extra 200pts to bolster the current units.

In my most recent game, my Gargant hacked down a Warlord in combat.  And both started the fight totally unhurt.  Just watch out for its gunz.
Author:  thepanu [ Wed Dec 17, 2003 9:58 am ]
Post subject:  Specialist Pic of the day sightings
Valid points all. Biggest reason for lot's of decision in that list fact that this was my first 3000p game, and I barely managed to get that much points. Thats why Stompamob is so big and for the same reason there is that single big gun in that warband.

And this was first game for that Great Gargant, and I don't yet own regular one. And I really wanted to try that one.

Warband was this small because in previous games it has been twice that size, but it hasn't ever managed to deal any significant damage.

So, I think buggys are my next project. Luckily I have 4 blisters of them. Shouldn't take too long to get them painted.
Author:  Shadow Hunter [ Wed Dec 17, 2003 10:33 am ]
Post subject:  Specialist Pic of the day sightings
I know what you mean about the Great Gargant, I'm thinking about using one just to see the difference between the two.  What I really want, though, is a soopa stompa for the stompa Mob!  :cool:

I use two Warbands in my 3000 list.  A regular one and a big one.  They are very useful in in two ways.  Firstly, they look very imposing and the opponent will waste a lot of firepower trying to reduce them.  I have extra Grotz to soak up these hits (bought through extra Boyz) and a Stompa in each to soak up AT fire (I use a stompy force).  So they can take a lot of hits and still stick around for the scrap.

Then they are very useful to get onto an objective and stay there.  With such big sizes (I buy extra boyz for the smaller warband too) if they do break they rally easily (ish) with a +2 modifier.  And they are a very flexible unit, able to achieve anything.  a big shoota on each boy and two on Nobz, plus what ever upgrades (gunfortess', gunwagonz, stompas etc) mean they can shoot effectively, and the same goes for assault.  Just remember those grotz!

So while the opponent is wasting all his shots on your warband, the rest of the force does your damage.  Outflanking him for crossfires etc.

The KoS os very useful (and damn fast)  I have a big formation (16) which is plenty.  I dont think they need the Assault value of the bikerz, since I rely on thier firepower.  These are very good for getting behind the enemy for that crossfire.
Author:  thepanu [ Wed Dec 17, 2003 12:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Specialist Pic of the day sightings
Guess I need to give my Boyz a second chance :)

BTW how big Big Gun mobz do you use? And do you use Oddboy upgrade for them?
Author:  Shadow Hunter [ Wed Dec 17, 2003 1:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Specialist Pic of the day sightings
I'll try again, stupid computer crashing!

Try a big gunz mob, and two soopagunz.  These can be garrisoned, so should have targets straight away.  Also give them extra boyz and grotz to soak up hits/supression.

Give the Boyz another go.  Try a big mob for the extra nobz (and rallying) and extra grotz.  Use them to take the brunt of the enemy fire, with a stompa and dread in there too.  This way, your stompa mob can come from behind unhurt.
Author:  thepanu [ Wed Dec 17, 2003 2:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Specialist Pic of the day sightings
Try a big gunz mob, and two soopagunz. ?These can be garrisoned, so should have targets straight away. ?Also give them extra boyz and grotz to soak up hits/supression.


How am I going to do that when using GT list? Only one oddboy upgrade and nobz are only infantry units allowed as upgrade.

Give the Boyz another go. ?Try a big mob for the extra nobz (and rallying) and extra grotz. ?Use them to take the brunt of the enemy fire, with a stompa and dread in there too. ?This way, your stompa mob can come from behind unhurt.

That I am going to try. I did have big mob in previous games as I mentioned before, but they'll become rather expensive  when mounted to Battlewagonz.
Author:  Shadow Hunter [ Wed Dec 17, 2003 2:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Specialist Pic of the day sightings
When there is a limit to how many upgrades you can take (i.e. upto 1 oddboy) that is the limit for a normal mob.  This figure is increased when you also enlarge the mob.

So, for example, a normal gunz mob can have 1 oddboy, a big mob can have 2 and a uge mob 3 oddboyz.

You are right with the infantry, though.  Forgot boyz dont go there anymore.  Still, Nobz would still be good.  They can take the suppression, and if you need to rally take off extra blast markers.

I dont worry about giving my warbands vehicles (except stompas and dreads).  I use the KoS and stormboyz for speed.  With my boyz I just walk them forward.  As double orders are easier for Orks, they still have a 30cm speed, and can go straight through terrain.

Do you get any use from gunfortresses?  I used 2 last game, and they did bugger all.  I had one in each warband, which they are now being dropped from and replaced with more stompas.  I wasn't using them for transport, just as some biggunz and a target to take fire off of the dreads and stompas.
Author:  thepanu [ Wed Dec 17, 2003 3:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Specialist Pic of the day sightings
When there is a limit to how many upgrades you can take (i.e. upto 1 oddboy) that is the limit for a normal mob. ?This figure is increased when you also enlarge the mob.
So, for example, a normal gunz mob can have 1 oddboy, a big mob can have 2 and a uge mob 3 oddboyz.

Oh, I hadn't realized that. That changes things a bit.

Do you get any use from gunfortresses?
Well, I lost both of my GF:s on turn one, first one from first salvo from Russ company and second from warlords fire.

I came up with this list. And this is pretty much everything I have available. I just need to get those buggys & scorchas & more stormboyz & more big gunz.

Big Warband
+1 Stompa

Big KoS (buggys)

Big KoS (bikes&scorchas)

Stormboyz
+3 Stormboyz

BB
+1 Gun Fortress
+ Oddboy

BB
+1 Gun Fortress
+ Oddboy

Big Big Gunz mob
+ 2 Oddboy
+1 Nobz

Stompamob
+ 3 Stompas
+4 Dreadnoughts

Thats 3005 points.
Author:  Shadow Hunter [ Wed Dec 17, 2003 4:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Specialist Pic of the day sightings
Where's the Gargant gone?

With the BB, its cheaper to have a big mob rather than two normal mobz (as is usually the case) however, obviously its less activations.

Apart from that, I think it looks good.
Author:  nealhunt [ Wed Dec 17, 2003 5:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Specialist Pic of the day sightings
>> Big Warband
+1 Stompa

Personally, I prefer single warbands (still 10 units), but this is a big ol' honkin' garrison to throw out in the middle of the board and I can see it being useful.  In particular, it can be flashy enough to keep the fire away from your Big Gunz.

>> Big KoS (buggys)
>> Big KoS (bikes&scorchas)

I think this is a good setup.  The buggies are a good general purpose formation (FF5/CC5/AP5/AT6, 30cm range) and the bikes/skorchas will be awesome in assault or at close range. like after a double move.

>> Stormboyz +3 Stormboyz

Nice little garrison and fast enough to pick off stray enemy units.

>> BB +1 Gun Fortress + Oddboy

Don't listen to Shadow Hunter on this one.  This is a sweet formation.  At 335 points, you can dish out massive AT damage at range, plus a good Titan Killer shot.  I love them, and have since I took down a warhound titan in a single volley with only slightly above average rolls.

I would recommend having one flakwagon in the mix.  With two formations, you can spread them out to provide air cover and they are fast enough to react and go where you need the firepower.

>> Big Big Gunz mob + 2 Oddboy +1 Nobz

I am not convinced that the soopagunz are worth it, but it's worth a try.  I would definitely max out the Nobz upgrades.  Each one removes an extra BM, and since Gunz don't count for MobUp bonuses, you need all the help in the rally phase you can get.

Make sure you place this with plenty of cover and I'm sure it will do great, especially if that Big Warband is close enough to distract your opponent.

>> Stompamob + 3 Stompas +4 Dreadnoughts

I'm not convinced that stompas are worth 75 points.  I think 65 would probably be more accurate.  OTOH, I think the Supstompa is probably underpriced, so take one when it becomes available.

Anyway, I might break this in half.  There are no points breaks for big stompamobs, and a formation of 3 stompas/2 dreads should be pretty tough on its own, unless your main goal is to get into assault.

Overall, a strong army selection.


You are pretty shooty here, so that may be problematic dealing with Orks' activation rules.  Remember that even if your double move and shoot option is really crappy, it still works for softening up a target and/or supporting an assault.  If you try to stand and shoot too often, you will burn your SC reroll and end up failing activations.  I would generally try to save it for Sustained Fire by the Gunz or a normal move by one of the BB mobz.

Hope that helps.
Author:  thepanu [ Wed Dec 17, 2003 6:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Specialist Pic of the day sightings
Thanks for the input.

Reason for Gargant not being there is activations. This list has most activations I have had so far. Maybe I'll split that stompa mob as well to gain one more.

But anyway I think I'll go with this one for next game and be a lot wiser after that.
Author:  Shadow Hunter [ Thu Dec 18, 2003 5:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Specialist Pic of the day sightings
Fitting in a soopa stompa would be a very good idea.  Proxy one if you have to.  I've been trying to think of something to use as one, and have just pulled apart an unpainted mega gargant to help in the task.  It has as much fire power as a regular Gargant at a fraction of the cost.

I have to admit that the gunfortresses I used were not actually upgraded with an Oddboy.  I suppose I should have one really.  Especially since I had nothing to take down a Warlord titan at range in my last battle.  At 185pts, though, it seems a lot.  Especially when you can put that weapon in a big gunz formation for about 75pts.

Air cover is one thing I dont need to worry about at the moment, since I'm still teaching someone the basic rules.  I do still have 2 flakwagonz though, for looks  :cool:
Author:  nealhunt [ Thu Dec 18, 2003 6:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Specialist Pic of the day sightings
>> I have to admit that the gunfortresses I used were not actually upgraded with an Oddboy.

I actually put the upgrade on a gunwagon.  It makes it harder to target specifically, and spreads otu the value of the formation across the vehicles.

>> At 185pts, though, it seems a lot.  Especially when you can put that weapon in a big gunz formation for about 75pts.

Well... you also get 30cm move, 4+ armor, DC 3, 2 other big gunz and 5 big shootas with the fortress.


I've actually been thinking about some mechanized arty.  A Uge BB with 3 oddboyz would be 500 points.  If you put 2 flakwagons in it, you would have

6BP at 60cm (or 3 SupaZzaps, or 4 BP and 1 SupaZzap)
7 AT5/AP5 at 45cm
4 AT6/AP6/AA6 at 30cm

with all the speed and armor saves of wagonz.
Author:  thepanu [ Thu Dec 18, 2003 9:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Specialist Pic of the day sightings
Some pics from my army used in that game.

Balance Of Terror
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