If it works ... we use it !
| Tactical Command http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/ |
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| Overwatch http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=542 |
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| Author: | CyberShadow [ Sat Feb 14, 2004 1:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Overwatch |
Reading the rules for overwatch again and I come up with a strange point. You can only overwatch fire at an enemy formation that moves. So, I have my Tactical formation on overwatch with an Ork formation ahead of them. Then, instead of moving the Orks simply go on Sustained Fire and I cant even fire back? I can see situations where it would not be a good idea to allow overwatch fire at any formation shooting, but wouldnt it be a good idea to allow overwatch fire at an enemy formation that fired at the overwatching formation (with overwatch happening after the enemy formation finished firing)? |
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| Author: | primarch [ Sat Feb 14, 2004 3:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Overwatch |
Hi! I can see the "intent" of the rule and its application. Problem is if you switch the rule to be used before the other units "acts" you may have scenarios of "overwatching the overwatched unit". I ran into this problem when designing Heresy, I solved it by not making overwatch automatic, but dependant on a "reaction" roll. It worked well. Primarch |
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| Author: | Legion 4 [ Sat Feb 14, 2004 4:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Overwatch |
The way we do it is, if you are on Fire Fire orders and have not been activated, you may "Snap Fire" (what real wargames call "opportunity fire"), if an enemy unit moves within your LOS. ?That counts as the firing unit's action and is marked with the counters provided in the SM1 game. ?But does not count as the firing side's activation. |
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| Author: | primarch [ Sat Feb 14, 2004 5:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Overwatch |
Hi! We use the same SM1 era rule in net epic too. Primarch |
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| Author: | Legion 4 [ Sat Feb 14, 2004 5:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Overwatch |
If it works ... we use it !
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| Author: | primarch [ Sat Feb 14, 2004 5:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Overwatch |
Hi! Definitely, haven't found better!  Primarch |
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| Author: | CyberShadow [ Sat Feb 14, 2004 11:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Overwatch |
I think that you misunderstand. The reaction firing happens after the action, that is fine and undisputed. The problem that I have is that the overwatch formation can only fire as a reaction to a move. So, to restate my earlier scenario: My Tactical Marine formation goes on overwatch with an Ork formation ahead. Now, if the Orks move, I can shoot them at the end of their move. However, they go on a Sustained Fire order, meaning no movement and +1 to fire. They fire at my Marine Tactical formation, and I cant fire back because they did not move. I understand that the overwatch formation should not be able to fire at any enemy formation that fires, but if one fires at them directly, there is nothing that they can do if the enemy did not move first! I am simply suggesting an alteration to the overwatch rules, where a formation can overwatch fire at an enemy formation that moves, or which fires at it. Am I right in my understanding of the overwatch rule? Is it really the case that my Tacticals would just sit and do nothing when fired upon if the enemy did not move first? |
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| Author: | iblisdrax [ Sun Feb 15, 2004 3:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Overwatch |
The rules state: Also note that formations on overwatch may only react when a formation moves or unloads troops. They may not to choose to shoot at a formation that does anything else in their line of fire, such as shooting without moving or regrouping. So you are correct, the Tactical stand would do nothing. Possibly your simple modification, adding shooting to list of things that a formation on overwatch can react to, would work. As far as the opposing formation going into overwatch also, that would mean that neither formation would do anything but sit there. my 2cents, iblisdrax |
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| Author: | Legion 4 [ Sun Feb 15, 2004 6:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Overwatch |
I see ... a slight modification may be needed ... has anyone brought this up with J.J. ? 
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| Author: | Jimbo [ Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:50 am ] | ||
| Post subject: | Overwatch | ||
You can only overwatch fire when an enemy formation moves. Can you fire normally rather than use overwatch fire? |
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| Author: | Tas [ Sun Feb 15, 2004 10:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Overwatch |
Hmmm...think of what is actually happenign on the ground and what the rules are trying to represent: Commissar: Sit here Troopers- shoot anything that moves! Scared trropers: Aye Aye Sir! Or Here they come lads! Show them the Emperor's Fury! zap zap zap! They firing units have to see something, otherwise they wont fire. Similarly, they are waiting for the bad guys to rush in so hey can get a better shot: "Wait till you see the whites of their eyes!" Otherwise put them on Sustained Fire. So in essence, I think its what you are expecting to get out of Overwatch rather than the rule itself [Disclaimer- this example uses Human male terms. No Racist/Sexist/Armist inference is intended  ] |
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| Author: | Agent Brown [ Sun Feb 15, 2004 1:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Overwatch |
I really don't see the problem. The only way for the situation that has been referred to happen is if you went into OW when there was an enemy formation that had you within range of their weapons or an enemy formation moves closer to you but still out of range of your weapons and within range of theirs. That is the choice you make as a commander. You could have went on to Sustained fire or moved away/closer etc., but chose not to. Instead, you decide to wait until the enemy get closer or a juicier target comes along. To activate OW fire when shot at seems a little like having your cake and eating it. As for two formations on OW squaring off, again this is down to the commanders rather than the rule. If you allow the situation to happen, that's up to you. |
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| Author: | primarch [ Sun Feb 15, 2004 1:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Overwatch |
Hi! Welcome to the forums Agent Brown. Primarch |
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| Author: | Agent Brown [ Sun Feb 15, 2004 2:34 pm ] | ||
| Post subject: | Overwatch | ||
Thankyou. Pleasure to be here. |
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| Author: | Legion 4 [ Sun Feb 15, 2004 6:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Overwatch |
Very good points Tas and Agent Brown. Nice to have you on board Agent Brown, clear logical thinking is always welcomed. And I like game rules that make you think and "take command", so to speak. Understanding game rules come in two phases. Based on my experiences, 1) reading & understanding the rules and 2) using them tactically in the game to (closely ?) simulate a type of combat action ... Or you could just play 40K !!!  
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