Tactical Command
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Playtest Question
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Author:  Gandalf the Grey [ Thu Aug 14, 2003 10:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Playtest Question
Anyone notice 'Epic_moderator' whom I think is Pixelgeek blowing a gasket over the kinds of posts in the forum?

I think it is all rather funny. I don't think anyone is paying attention.
Author:  primarch [ Thu Aug 14, 2003 11:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Playtest Question
Hi!

Yes, I've noticed.

I sometimes wonder about you Gandalf. You know you are "talking to the wind" on that forum. I've seen your post and agree with most if not all the points (I like that "Swords" fellow too, very insightful), but WHY BOTHER?

You know that:

- a. No one with any power to change things cares what you say.

- b. All you get is flak from the fanboys and the "yes-men"...

Mind you, I find some of the exchanges on those boards hilarious and entertaining and from that point I would frankly encourage you to keep feeding the Trolls there for my own amusement, but don't you get tired?

Why not stay here with us on this forum?

There are obviously more people here attuned to your opinions than on that list.

Now do you understand WHY I don't bother with that list?

Take it from someone who has run a project that has lasted longer than this so-called playtest, it takes an expert juggler to manage such wide-ranging people and opinions. Not everyone has the tact to do it right. If you ever wonder what I actually "DO" on the NetEpic list, this paragraph gives you the answer:

Crowd control. I keep members egos, opinions and attitudes in check without hurting anyones feeling in the process. Not as easy as it sounds. But in 6 years we have only had 1-2 incidents that could qualify as flame wars on our list and none are of the magnitude of some I have seen on the "playtest" forums.

So dude, dont beat your head against the wall. It's not worth it. The die is cast with the new game.

Sit back and watch the fireworks.....

Primarch.
Author:  Gandalf the Grey [ Fri Aug 15, 2003 1:16 am ]
Post subject:  Playtest Question
I sometimes wonder about you Gandalf. You know you are "talking to the wind" on that forum. I've seen your post and agree with most if not all the points (I like that "swords" fellow to, very insightful), but WHY BOTHER?


LOL. Well, I guess I like to fight. I have a high tolerance. I am really convinced that I am right, so the fact I am taking on seven or so at once doesn't bother me.

The fact guys like Swords and even Legion in here, hey, could they be the same guy?

Anyway, Swords has been pretty impressive and I am glad he seems to agree to many of my points cause I would rather be seen agreeing with him in the minority than with the "yes- men" who go along with whatever and not really know why.

Besides, sometimes I get bored at work. ?:;):

You know that:
- a. No one with any power to change things cares what you say.
- b. All you get is flak from the fanboys and the yes men...

Ultimately I'd have to really care how any of them feel about me, I guess. I guess that when I argue for something and all I hear is "Jervis wants it this way" or "I'm sick of hearing about this" then I think it is a cop-out and whether it is an issue that would improve the game. I know Jervis is stuck on his issues, so I guess I am as well.

I didn't think things have really gotten all that funny. I was even showing restraint arguing with the Geek.

BTW way, I got banned from the Warhammer Society Forum as Gandalf the Grey and came back as Gandalf the White. ?Someone asked, "Didn't you get banned?" and I replied "yes and now I am even stronger." Hahaha. If I am banned again, I'm coming back as Dracula.

I'll agree with you though, the Epic Playtesting Forum has to be one of the worst forums I know. I don't know why people are more easy going else where, and besides a couple of lamos at the WS, they are pretty cool there as well.

Mind you I find some of the exchanges on those boards hilarious and entertaining and from that point I would frankly encourage you to keep feeding the Trolls there for my own amusement.

Deal! ?:p
Author:  primarch [ Fri Aug 15, 2003 2:16 am ]
Post subject:  Playtest Question
Hi!

LOL. Well, I guess I like to fight. ?I have a high tolerance. ?I really am convinced that I am right, so the fact I am taking on seven or so at once doesn't bother me. ?The fact guys like Swords and even Legion in here, hey, could they be the same guy? Anyway, Swords has been pretty impressive and I am glad he seems to agree to many of my points cause he I would rather be seen agreeing with him in the minority than with the yes men who go along with whatever and not really know why.

Besides, sometimes I get bored at work.


Ah yes, I remember when I used to be that way, right after the release of... Epic-40k... It's fun to heckle those with thin skin, especially when defending such an easy target as that game. I did a lot of that while I trained so I had a fair amount of time in some rotations, it was good to kill time and laugh.

Keep in mind it DOES get boring after a while though.

As for GW forums, you tend to get banned rather frequently just by stating simple, logical facts, so I'm not surprised by this. I keep a strict policy of non-involvement in official GW forums. I'd perhaps enjoy them more if detractors would get beyond counter arguments like "SM will never come back so get over it" or "Jervis said 'x' so deal with it" and their many variations.

I just wish for once they'd give the answer we all know they are thinking but don't have the guts to say...

..."We don't care about all you old gaming Cads since we already pumped you for the cash that you're worth"...

IF they did that, I'd RESPECT them a whole lot more...

...then again as a native New Yorker, we think nastiness and sincerity are synonyms! }:)

Primarch.
Author:  MaksimSmelchak [ Fri Aug 15, 2003 3:18 am ]
Post subject:  Playtest Question
Gandalf,

I know how you feel. I've been really disappointed with the boards since I took the effort to return. I'm happy with most of the posters, but am severely disappointed with "Epic-moderator," the board administrator.

The fact guys like Swords and even Legion in here, hey, could they be the same guy?
Anyway, Swords has been pretty impressive and I am glad he seems to agree to many of my points cause I would rather be seen agreeing with him in the minority than with the "yes- men" who go along with whatever and not really know why.


I have no idea, but it could be possible. However, I don't think so because they have different writing styles (although their attitudes and opinions are curiously similar). Legion-4 uses what I like to call "1950's army grammar" while Swords shows the stylizations of someone from the 1990s or 1980s. That's my opinion and I could certainly be wrong.

Of course, I'm pretty sure that Legion-4 will take pride in his writing no matter what I label it. He's cool that way! :D

Besides, sometimes I get bored at work. ?

That can explain a lot! LOL :p

I didn't think things have really gotten all that funny. I was even showing restraint arguing with the Geek.

I've noticed that. You've been much more restrained that I've come to expect.

BTW way, I got banned from the Warhammer Society Forum as Gandalf the Grey and came back as Gandalf the White. ?Someone asked, "Didn't you get banned?" and I replied "yes and now I am even stronger." Hahaha. If I am banned again, I'm coming back as Dracula.

This is really clever. I'm amused. I can't wait to see Dracula-Gandalf.

I'll agree with you though, the Epic Playtesting Forum has to be one of the worst forums I know. I don't know why people are more easy going else where, and besides a couple of lamos at the WS, they are pretty cool there as well.

I agree that the board is being poorly managed at the moment. By the way, Gandalf, avoid the profanity, please. I changed your inappropriate language to the word "lamos" instead. I understand about the language, but I'd like to keep Epic40k.co.uk family-friendly as I have had several younger players that I've gotten interested in our game and their parents wouldn't be too happy with that sort of environment. Does that make sense to you?

I'd like the board to be acceptable for our families. I'll give an example: when I visited Dafrca, we went by his local "hang-out" and I met the guys who were cursing like sailors. That's OK. They were by themselves having some "guys and the gang" moments. But the minute Dafcra brings down his daughter or there are "wee" people about, they clam up their language.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
Author:  MaksimSmelchak [ Fri Aug 15, 2003 3:28 am ]
Post subject:  Playtest Question
Primarch,

You're my friend, but I respectfully disagree with you on these points. I think you have a really poor attitude regarding the "Epic establishment" although I don't blame you since you (and I and all of us) have been burned by the system for a long time.

And, of course, you're from New York (as you mentioned)! }:)

You know that:
- a. No one with any power to change things cares what you say.


I think Jervis does care or he wouldn't have invested so much in trying to relaunch Epic. It would have been much easier to let Epic fade away. I'm sure that it was someone like Jervis who thought to ralaunch the game rather than someone from "corporate."

The E-A Playtest boards, for all their faults, have made E-A a vastly better game than it could have been. JJ takes some of the advice (he doesn't need to take it all and I respect his discretion in doing so. After all, artists will be artists) and uses it to improve E-A.

- b. All you get is flak from the fanboys and the "yes-men"...

There is some of that, but it doesn't have to be that way. There are quite a number of people on the boards that aren't "yes-men" or "fanboys" like myself, Dafrca, Athmos, Swords, and quite a few others.

I became a playtester because I wanted to see E-A avoid the mistakes that made E-40k such a bland game. I do take things seriously even though I've been pretty frustrated with the system several times. Ultimately, I'm an optimist and I do my best to project a positive attitude, which is precisely the kind of attitude that's going to be needed if E-A is going to survive.

OK. Sorry guys! LOL :D

I'll get off my soap box pulpit now!

Best regards to all and Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
Author:  MaksimSmelchak [ Fri Aug 15, 2003 3:37 am ]
Post subject:  Playtest Question
Gandalf, Primarch, and the rest of the gang,

Anyone notice 'Epic_moderator' whom I think is Pixelgeek blowing a gasket over the kinds of posts in the forum?


I've noticed that PG is from Canada while the "Epic-moderator" is from the USA, which means that if PG is the "Epic-moderator" that he has either slipped and typoed his home or is deliberately misleading us.

I wrote that in a thread on the E-A plyatest boards called "Chatter and banter TWO" in response to a thread the "Epic-moderator" wrote called "Chatter and banter." The "Epic-moderator" locked that thread so I had to write my own to reply to his points. Now it appears that the "Epic-moderator" has deleted those posts after I made points that disagreed with him and that mightily implicated that PG is still the "Epic-moderator" whether he admits it or not.

I don't think it really matters since the writing (and spelling) patterns of PG and "Epic-moderator" are nearly exactly the same. Uncanny, isn't it?

Dafrca and I have been discussing this off-board.

What do you guys think:

Should moderators be members of the board or "anonymous" entities?

There's an issue that some board members might mistake a moderator's opinions as the group's "official" stance. I really don't see this, but I will admit that it's very possible.

My idea is that one should conduct oneself in such a manner that it wouldn't matter who the moderator was because they acted as a honest, straight-forward, and genial person.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
Author:  primarch [ Fri Aug 15, 2003 4:36 am ]
Post subject:  Playtest Question
Hi!

No worries, Maksim.

From yourself or most on this forum I accept and respect any and criticism and disagreements, because you and others have shown yourselves to be VERY reasonable people. In some cases, much more so than I am willing to be sometimes! :p

I'm the first one to point out that I'm a bitter/disapointed/old foggie and generally rabid anti-GW establishment kinda guy (although compared to several years ago I'm quite mellow now ?:) ).

Much of my poor expectations come from the point that, while I don't support Epic-A, why couldn't you, Neal, Dafrca, Jimbo, Cybershadow and a host of other serious, reasonable people aren't the ones LEADING Epic-A or moderating those forums or otherwise "Calling the shots?"

Why are those least-qualified in experience with the game in all its editions or lack the patience or personality to be a credible open moderator or leader the ones in charge?

Thats where my pissy streak stems from regarding Epic-A. It may have gone "far," but it hasn't gone farther because Jervis didn't take the initiative to really organize the playtest forum and its subsequent feedback. Leaving leadership to a person with an inane high number of posts is NOT the way to do it. To be frank, it would have been better served having no moderators at all than the way it is currently handled.

I realize that you and others on this forum are on that board, but honestly, whatever good points you seem to put up, a lot of them get drowned out by less "coherent" voices. Granted it depends what each individual is willing to "handle" it, but for my particular personality and way of doing things, I see lots of wasted effort there. Of course, that's a matter of taste and opinion.

With Epic-A, I confess I have very ambivalent feelings about it. Sometimes I'm stoked about it, wishing and hoping it does well and minis for it will once again be plentiful. On other days, the crushing weight of past experience demand I wake up and smell the coffee.

I don't have a problem with moderators having an active presence, I dont think that is the problem since Cybershadow has an active presence and I don't think ANYONE can make an arguement that he is intrusive or unfair (quite the contrary in my view!).

The problem in this case is purely that of an individual's personality and how it is obviously "ticking people off." In that particular case, perhaps a moderator with no direct participation is best.

In fact, while I could very easily apply a heavier handed approach on the NetEpic list, through the years I have done the opposite, since in my view, the perception that list members will have over the moderate will depend a great deal on separating what the "moderator" says and what is my own opinion. It's a tricky business, no doubt, but an effort that is rewarding when done right.

I agree that we should follow a "no cursing" policy on these boards. I for one LOVE cussing, but will go no farther than "crap" as my naughty word.

I promise that next week I will open my last six-pack of "GW goodwill" and use it enthusiastically. :)

Primarch.
Author:  Legion 4 [ Fri Aug 15, 2003 4:41 am ]
Post subject:  Playtest Question
Hi Gandalf,

I'm going to have to take the time to read the posts made by this "Sword!"  ?

I may be his evil clone, but we are two different entities! :o ?

Never met the gentleman, but he sounds pretty cool! :laugh: ?

He must read a lot of military history and books on military subjects plus watch a lot of the History Channel...

Oh, wait... that's me! ?:blush:
Author:  primarch [ Fri Aug 15, 2003 4:55 am ]
Post subject:  Playtest Question
Hi!

Nah, I'd recognize you anywhere Legion-4, no matter what the alias.

You just have that certain "something" that's hard to hide. I think it's that "GI JOE" persona you always have lurking in the background. Sometimes reading your posts, I have a sudden urge to do push-ups! :;):

Primarch.
Author:  Legion 4 [ Fri Aug 15, 2003 4:59 am ]
Post subject:  Playtest Question
Thanks, Primarch! ?

I am too big a target to be easily concealed! :laugh: ?

Oh yeah, get down and knock out 50!!! ?:laugh:
Author:  primarch [ Fri Aug 15, 2003 5:02 am ]
Post subject:  Playtest Question
Hi!

I'm afraid that I'm in my bad shape and that would probably kill me, but...

...YES, SERGEANT MAJOR!

(No Sir, because sergeant majors WORK for a living! :;): ?)

Primarch.
Author:  MaksimSmelchak [ Fri Aug 15, 2003 5:22 am ]
Post subject:  Playtest Question
I just wrote this post. We'll see what the "Epic_moderator" does about it. I'm predicting that he deletes it.


Epic_moderator,

quote:
---------------------------
quote by Epic_moderator:
---------------------------
Originally posted by Swords
Is it just me, or are Eldar players particularly sensitive? :D
---------------------------
Not any less sensitive than Moderators.
Can we try to keep our conversations civil please?
Any more less-than-civil comments (from any party) and I'll be forced to lock the thread.
-------------------------

I don't think that Swords meant anything personal by this, Epic_Moderator. That's why he made a smiley face :D at the end of the question. It's a joke, a way for him to let off tension.

I don't think anyone took it personally either with the possible exception of PG.

The below post (quoted) is an example of my writing, someone who definitely didn't take it personally.

I find Sword's post perfectly civil and a little humorous too!

quote:
--------------------
Sword,
quote:
--------------------
Hmmm, I sure seem to have ruffled someone's feathers.
Is it just me, or are Eldar players particularly sensitive? ?:D ?
--------------------
We can't help it. All the dancing, singing, and makeup get us worked up.
It's kind of like a KISS concert!
Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
-------------------------
Best regards to you, Epic_Moderator.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
-------------------------
Edited by - MaksimSmelchak on 08/15/2003 05:21:46


Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
Author:  Legion 4 [ Fri Aug 15, 2003 5:29 am ]
Post subject:  Playtest Question
If I got down, I couldn't get back up again! :laugh: ?

As a former Infantry Officer, I made sure all my NCOs & Troopers "really" worked for a living... ?:laugh: ?

- Terminate pompous jerk mode... :laugh:
Author:  Legion 4 [ Fri Aug 15, 2003 5:33 am ]
Post subject:  Playtest Question
I really liked the part about "dancing, singing, etc.", Maksim ! :laugh:
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