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Off board SC roll

 Post subject: Off board SC roll
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:45 am 
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So I know that you can use the SC roll off the board to bring on his/her formation. Does this include if they are in a aircraft?

Q. Can units that are off board use their special abilities.
A. No, but there are some exceptions. Special abilities that allow the formation to be placed on the table (teleport, tunneler, etc) may obviously be used. Also, any special abilities that affect the formation’s action or rally test (farsight, supreme commander, etc.) may be used, but only on the unit’s formation. Finally, leader and slow and steady may be used off-board.

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 Post subject: Re: Off board SC roll
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:52 am 
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Yes, they count as the same formation at that point because of the transport WE rules.

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 Post subject: Re: Off board SC roll
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:55 am 
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nice cheers for that, i wasnt 100% on it

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 Post subject: Re: Off board SC roll
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:55 am 
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It makes me sad a Spacecraft can't use the re-roll if the SC is on board.


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 Post subject: Re: Off board SC roll
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:05 pm 
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Can't they? WE always played that the problem when being off-board was with the formation that uses the ability, not the others, so Aircraft, Spacecraft, Tunnellers and Teleporters and any other similar ability could benefit from abilities like SC or Farsight triple retain as long as there wasn't any range implied like in Commander.

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 Post subject: Re: Off board SC roll
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:09 am 
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Abetillo wrote:
Can't they? WE always played that the problem when being off-board was with the formation that uses the ability, not the others, so Aircraft, Spacecraft, Tunnellers and Teleporters and any other similar ability could benefit from abilities like SC or Farsight triple retain as long as there wasn't any range implied like in Commander.


I don't follow?

Spacecraft don't benefit from SC as the formation containing the SC isn't taking an action as part of the activation, they are free to do something entirely different after the orbital drop later in the turn.


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 Post subject: Re: Off board SC roll
PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:34 pm 
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RugII wrote:
Abetillo wrote:
Can't they? WE always played that the problem when being off-board was with the formation that uses the ability, not the others, so Aircraft, Spacecraft, Tunnellers and Teleporters and any other similar ability could benefit from abilities like SC or Farsight triple retain as long as there wasn't any range implied like in Commander.


I don't follow?

Spacecraft don't benefit from SC as the formation containing the SC isn't taking an action as part of the activation, they are free to do something entirely different after the orbital drop later in the turn.


I know i am doing a massive necroposting, but i did not see this till now, and I am still interested.

As far as i understand, the FAQ is talking about that units with special abilities cannot use them off-board save if it is to enter on the board themselves, not talking about not using their abilities on off-board formations, be it aircraft on Intercept orders or Spacecraft for example, as long as the unit with the ability is on board.

Q. Can units that are off board use their special abilities.
A. No, but there are some exceptions. Special abilities that allow the formation to be placed on the table (teleport, tunneler, etc) may obviously be used. Also, any special abilities that affect the formation’s action or rally test (farsight, supreme commander, etc.) may be used, but only on the unit’s formation. Finally, leader and slow and steady may be used off-board.

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 Post subject: Re: Off board SC roll
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:34 am 
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Abetillo wrote:
any special abilities that affect the formation’s action or rally test (farsight, supreme commander, etc.) may be used, but only on the unit’s formation

When the spaceship activates, the supreme commander is not part of their formation.

When an aircraft activates, the supreme command is part of the same formation. The FAQ doesn't say "as long as they are on board".

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 Post subject: Re: Off board SC roll
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:37 pm 
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I think the issue isn’t the FAQ, but the wording of the main rule. I’ve always read it that the WE and the transported formation count as one formation for resolving the shooting or assault, not for other purposes.

But even if my reading of that bit is wrong, it’s all specific to disembarking - strictly speaking you wouldn’t be able to use the SC re-roll if bringing the aircraft in without landing.

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 Post subject: Re: Off board SC roll
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:15 pm 
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Kyrt wrote:
Abetillo wrote:
any special abilities that affect the formation’s action or rally test (farsight, supreme commander, etc.) may be used, but only on the unit’s formation

When the spaceship activates, the supreme commander is not part of their formation.

When an aircraft activates, the supreme command is part of the same formation. The FAQ doesn't say "as long as they are on board".



Yes, i know that, but the point for me is this

Q. Can units that are off board use their special abilities.

And it is not about a unit off board using its ability but one on board. On the FAQ it says nothing about restrictions on using abilities owned by units that are on board.

Because of that the re-roll is being used many many times in battle reports here for bringing in Fighters to bomb that last formation defending an objective for example.

Here are some examples:

Thunderhawk here and the SC was not on it but on ground beforehand. http://pfe100.blogspot.com/2017/04/bt-4 ... netea.html
Lightnings here https://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd ... 84&t=33723
Fightas https://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd ... 84&t=33713
Fightas https://epicarms.blogspot.com/2019/01/r ... ks-ii.html
Thunderbolts https://epicarms.blogspot.com/2017/09/e ... ke-ii.html
Thunderbolts https://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd ... 84&t=33780
Thunderhawk with the SC not on it but on ground beforehand https://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd ... 84&t=33774
Hell Talons https://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd ... 84&t=33762
Avengers https://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd ... 84&t=34096
Phoenixes https://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd ... 84&t=34037

As you can see it is a fairly common use even though most battle reports do not say where the SC re-roll was used, so there has to be a lot more, and i only checked the first three pages of the subforum and omitted those by me and other people from my group.

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 Post subject: Re: Off board SC roll
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:22 pm 
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Abetillo wrote:
Kyrt wrote:
Abetillo wrote:
any special abilities that affect the formation’s action or rally test (farsight, supreme commander, etc.) may be used, but only on the unit’s formation

When the spaceship activates, the supreme commander is not part of their formation.

When an aircraft activates, the supreme command is part of the same formation. The FAQ doesn't say "as long as they are on board".



Yes, i know that, but the point for me is this

Q. Can units that are off board use their special abilities.

And it is not about a unit off board using its ability but one on board. On the FAQ it says nothing about restrictions on using abilities owned by units that are on board.

Because of that the re-roll is being used many many times in battle reports here for bringing in Fighters to bomb that last formation defending an objective for example.



I think there are some crossed wires here, when RUGII states
Quote:
It makes me sad a Spacecraft can't use the re-roll if the SC is on board

I read that as on board the space craft not on the gaming board as he had a great eldar tactic of planet falling 2 or 3 loaded vampires from a spaceraft and triple retaining to attempt to decimate an opponents force . I don't think he was saying the re-roll could not be used if the SC was on the gaming board.


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 Post subject: Re: Off board SC roll
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:26 pm 
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dptdexys wrote:
I think there are some crossed wires here, when RUGII states
Quote:
It makes me sad a Spacecraft can't use the re-roll if the SC is on board

I read that as on board the space craft not on the gaming board as he had a great eldar tactic of planet falling 2 or 3 loaded vampires from a spaceraft and triple retaining to attempt to decimate an opponents force . I don't think he was saying the re-roll could not be used if the SC was on the gaming board.


Oh, my bad. That makes a lot of sense. It was strange to me as there was so many people doing the same. Thanks for the clarification.

About that, it sounds like an interesting buff to that tactic, given that planetfalling aircraft isn't as common as just entering normally as aircraft as the planetfalling itself uses an activation already. I am having a hard time trying to make a list with most of the formations coming from Planetfall work well.

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