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| Counter charging and some other recent madness. http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=32314 |
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| Author: | Dan 1314 [ Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Counter charging and some other recent madness. |
So we recently played a game of Eldar vs Knights in which the Eldar player summoned the Avator to attack 3 lancers with guardians in support. They activated the guardians and moved to 10 cm away (due to terrain they couldn't be 15) from the knights and fired the weapons platform to give a BM. They then retained and assaulted with the Avator. This is where it got sticky, the Avator got two of the knights into close combat. The third knight though could counter charge. The Avator was 7cm away, but had two units in base contact, a guardian was 10 cm away. So who should the knight counter charge? We played without the counter charge as it was a friendly and we couldn't be bothered working it out, but agreed to post here after. The points were: The Avator was definitely closet. But with two units in contact, it would lose its zone of control, and the duty to counter charge the closest seems to be like ZOC. Very interested in hearing your views. 2nd one, and probably far easier, what can a landed aircraft do. So in this case a Thunderhawk landed in turn three, didnt fly off in the end phase, in turn four does it: 1. Act like a ground unit with a move of zero. 2. Return to being a plane when activated. Assume its one, but never had this before. |
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| Author: | kyussinchains [ Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Counter charging and some other recent madness. |
The avatar can have up to 6 units in btb so the knight would countercharge to the avatar (although that is immaterial, it is closest enemy regardless) On the second point, yes a thawk which does not fly off counts as a ground unit in all respects on the following turn, it may disengage and fly off at the end of the turn as usual if you choose |
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| Author: | dptdexys [ Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Counter charging and some other recent madness. |
From 3.3.1 Charge Moves Quote: The rule that no more than two units may move into base contact with an enemy unit when they charge does not apply to war engines. Instead a war engine may be charged by up to two enemy units per point of its’ starting damage capacity (ie, a Baneblade with a DC of 3 could be contacted by up to six enemy units).
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| Author: | StevekCole [ Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Counter charging and some other recent madness. |
What Kyuss says. Also immaterial about the guardian as you still have to countercharge towards the closest unit even if you canny btb it. Sub question from me THREAD HIJACK ALERT- if I recall war engines only count as one unit for purposes of engaging (or is that only for engaging transports and trapping troops) so in theory (I think) you could actually get 6 knights into btb with the avatar? Kyuss? Dptdexys? |
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| Author: | kyussinchains [ Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Counter charging and some other recent madness. |
StevekCole wrote: Sub question from me THREAD HIJACK ALERT- if I recall war engines only count as one unit for purposes of engaging (or is that only for engaging transports and trapping troops) so in theory (I think) you could actually get 6 knights into btb with the avatar? Kyuss? Dptdexys? Correct, you could get 6 warlord titans in btb with the avatar if pkssible 
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| Author: | dptdexys [ Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Counter charging and some other recent madness. |
You can counter charge the next nearest unit if the closest is pinned by 2 units (2 units x DC for a WE) From NetEA FAQ Quote: Q.If the closest enemy unit is in contact with two defending units can a unit counter-charge the next closest instead?
A. Yes |
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| Author: | OracleBoyd [ Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Counter charging and some other recent madness. |
kyussinchains wrote: StevekCole wrote: Sub question from me THREAD HIJACK ALERT- if I recall war engines only count as one unit for purposes of engaging (or is that only for engaging transports and trapping troops) so in theory (I think) you could actually get 6 knights into btb with the avatar? Kyuss? Dptdexys? Correct, you could get 6 warlord titans in btb with the avatar if pkssible This is now my goal in life
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| Author: | Kyrt [ Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Counter charging and some other recent madness. |
dptdexys wrote: You can counter charge the next nearest unit if the closest is pinned by 2 units (2 units x DC for a WE) From NetEA FAQ Quote: Q.If the closest enemy unit is in contact with two defending units can a unit counter-charge the next closest instead? A. Yes Just an observation that lots of people don't stick to this. Especially when it's a simple 1 formation per side situation where the defender is better in CC, they tend to just put as many of the nearest attackers in btb as the zoc and moves allow, even sometimes doing the 'this defending unit is basing those 2 attacking units' thing. Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | Dan 1314 [ Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Counter charging and some other recent madness. |
Firstly, thanks for the replies. You guys are awesome! Just though jumping on what Kyrt has said, I've seen so many counter charges that have gone "he counter charges him, he does him, etc... Where the defender is better in CC." So take for example if an Orkyosarus was assaulted with troops inside (as those whom have played Jon Cole will recall, the war engine moves 5cm, the unloads the troops 5cm ... with longer bases this can mean up to 13cm.) Does this mean that the attacker should effectively sacrifice one unit (keeping everyone else 15cm), and moving it 5cm ahead, and say "hay that's the nearest unit, everyone needs to counter charge him, enjoy your two units in cc..." (p.s, I'm surprising cool with that as i always take fire fight lists  )
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| Author: | Kyrt [ Sat Apr 08, 2017 2:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Counter charging and some other recent madness. |
1. you have to be in coherency after the charge move 2. as dptdexys says, once the defender has countercharged the nearest unit with 2 units, they can countercharge the next nearest 3. war engines can barge, so arent stopped when they reach the first unit |
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| Author: | StevekCole [ Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Counter charging and some other recent madness. |
I think what Dan's getting at is with units with mounted up troops in war engines you can pull the war engine away from the main body of troops towards a single outlying unit thus avoiding a load of boyz & nobz hitting the main block of your assault. |
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| Author: | Kyrt [ Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Counter charging and some other recent madness. |
Right but the way I'm visualising it it's pretty tough to do for those reasons. I suppose if you did a kind of horseshoe, pulling the war engine off to one side? You risk leaving lots of your own guys out of range tho Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | StevekCole [ Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Counter charging and some other recent madness. |
You'd just put one unit at a very slight angle with an L shape which keeps everything in 15cm but gives you that valuable extra few cm reduction in counter charge! |
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| Author: | flyingthruwater [ Sun Apr 09, 2017 2:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Counter charging and some other recent madness. |
Sometimes I find the counter-charging rules to be some of the most unintuitive parts of the rules and the thing 'gamed' the most in NetEA (of which there is actually very few others that I've experienced). I've seen 'Uge mobs of boyz bettered by 2 or 3 SM bikers due to some Scouts or whatever pulling them in some other direction. Personally if the counter-charge rules simply stated that units moved towards the closest ENGAGING unit would've avoided the inevitable feeling that players always get when they get abused by this for the first time. Even now I still feel that it's a bit "off" when it's applied, but them's the rules I guess |
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