Tactical Command
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In cover / dangerous terrain or not
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=32161		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Ginger [ Sun Feb 12, 2017 1:17 am ]
Post subject:  In cover / dangerous terrain or not
An infantry formation with transport is positioned such that the infantry units are half in and half out of woods, their transport is outside, touching the infantry bases

1. Do the infantry count as being "in cover" or not
2. Does the transport take a Dangerous Terrain test to pick them up?
3. How do other people play 'units in cover'?
Author:  Dave [ Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: In cover / dangerous terrain or not
1) 5-min warmup, we play it as in cover.
2) Only if it contacts the part of the stand in cover (there's a newer FAQ for this)
3) Any part of the stand (goes hand-in-hand with generously applying the -1 to hit)
Author:  Steve54 [ Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: In cover / dangerous terrain or not
The UK scene play it as Dave says in his post.

Related to that I've seen reports where other parts of the world play vehicles as being in cover when touching terrain. We play it as vehicles are either in terrain (so need to take a dangerous terrain test) or they aren't. No just touching to gain the benefits without the drawbacks.
I wonder if this plays a part in differing views over the power of lists, particularly the Biel tan?
Author:  Dave [ Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: In cover / dangerous terrain or not
We play by this too:

http://www.tp.net-armageddon.org/tourna ... of-terrain

It gets a little fiddly with multiple unit formations firing on other multiple unit formations where only some units are partially obscured. Most of the time people just choose to shoot the units not obscured rather than take the -1 to hit everything.

It's a lot easier when you're firing at a single WE formation. The only thing you run in to there is sometimes it's partially obscured to some units while fully visible to others. In that situation we normally give it the -1.
Author:  Legion 4 [ Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: In cover / dangerous terrain or not
" 1. Do the infantry count as being "in cover" or not
2. Does the transport take a Dangerous Terrain test to pick them up?
3. How do other people play 'units in cover'? "

The way we play it. And based on SM1, Infantry on like First Fire[FF]. Meaning they are not moving, just firing. And usually no matter what the terrain. In this case the Infantry is prone/laying making themselves a smaller target. So they always get a cover bonus.

As far as Dangerous Terrain, it depends on what it is. Like swamps or marshes Infantry can cross at 1/2 speed. But an APC going to pick them up will most certainly get stuck [believe me !] SM1 and even SM2, etc. had a chart the designated for each: Infantry, Vehicles and Titans what is dangerous for each and the affects. Then in SM1 based on the unit type. They could do a Dangerous Terrain Test[DTT] when crossing into Dangerous Terrain. On a die roll of 1 ... your stuck. In End Phase you much roll to see if the free themselves. A die of 4-6, IIRC and your out. And of course, in some cases based on the unit type, some terrain is Impassible.

E.g. we played with the rule that troops in PA can cross a river, doing a DTT. Where other type Infantry can't cross a body of water unless at a ford, bridge, etc.

As far as cover in general a target must be 50% under cover to get the bonus. Infantry would not get a "double" bonus for being on FF behind a wall. But in a structure they would.

Cover is basically two things. Cover = something solid that could stop in coming fire. Like a stone wall, trench, etc.
Or Concealment = it blocks Line of Sight. So the enemy can't [clearly] see the target. But the concealment won't stop in coming fire. E.g. bushes, trees, crops, etc..

And we even used this concept for Titans. I.e. they are hiding behind a low structure, etc.. So they get a cover bonus. The target is only partly visible and part of it was behind cover/concealment.

When in doubt about cover & concealment ... just role off 1d6. If the attacker gets a higher roll, then the target does not get cover. Or vis versa ...

Hope that helps ... ^-^
Author:  jimmyzimms [ Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: In cover / dangerous terrain or not
Why I can respect all the reasoning there L4 (quite cogent) it's not really answering the question about the specific rules in the EA game (there's no First Fire in EA and Power Armour isn't an ability nor a unit type in the game). They're good houserules, mind you, but house rules.

So you do 50% in cover to get the -1? Do you do that for AV as well L4?

Edit: Oh I guess you were just answering #3, not the other. Ignore me!!! :)


The old Seattle league was pretty damn liberal in handing out over bonus. Infantry just had to touch. We'd make it a point to mention it regarding AV or LC with mounted with the assumption that forgetting/omissions we're not in.
Author:  Legion 4 [ Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: In cover / dangerous terrain or not
Indeed ... ^-^ Was asked how we do it ... So I posted those only as "suggestions". And those could be applicable to any Epic version, I'd think. Possibly with little modification ... 8)

"(there's no First Fire in EA and Power Armour isn't an ability nor a unit type in the game)." Yes, but let me go into a little more context. For any system -

First Fire - if an Infantry unit does not move ... it gets a cover bonus. Even in the "open", desert, etc. prone Infantrymen are harder to hit.

Troops in Power Armor - if an Infantry unit is in Power Armor of some type, they can cross water. And to further clarify while "under water" you cannot draw a LoS.

Again just suggestions ... that I think could work for any system.
Author:  jimmyzimms [ Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: In cover / dangerous terrain or not
Yeah realized that question#3 was broader on 2nd reading. I was thinking to myself, "crap he's really going to get people confused" :)
Author:  Legion 4 [ Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: In cover / dangerous terrain or not
Well like I said those are suggestions and could probably be used for an system [We are generally
"wedded" much of the SM1 rules. With Modifications ... ]. Modified based on the system, e.g. how the system does Cover Bonus, etc.

And of course, if anyone is confused ... they can just ask ... I'm a "rickety", decaying store house of "useless" knowledge. Far from the sum total of all the knowledge in the Universe ... ;)
Author:  Kyrt [ Sat Feb 18, 2017 6:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: In cover / dangerous terrain or not
I think the questions were rather "how do people interpret the EA cover rules?" and not "I don't know what cover is, what rules could I make up to represent it?".
Author:  Legion 4 [ Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: In cover / dangerous terrain or not
I understand that, just thought I'd add some context to the conversation. As I discussed how we do cover/dangerous terrain. And thought it might be of some use. But if someone does something different and likes it better that way. That is what they should do.

And I really didn't make much of that up. It is based on SM1. As I said. So I thought most understood that. Maybe not ?

But feel free to add your suggestions ... it is an open thread ...
Author:  Onyx [ Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: In cover / dangerous terrain or not
Ginger wrote:
An infantry formation with transport is positioned such that the infantry units are half in and half out of woods, their transport is outside, touching the infantry bases

1. Do the infantry count as being "in cover" or not
2. Does the transport take a Dangerous Terrain test to pick them up?
3. How do other people play 'units in cover'?

1 - Yes.
2 - No. The vehicle has not entered the terrain so no test required.
3 - Infantry in terrain is obvious. A vehicle would have to take a Dangerous Terrain Test to be able to qualify as being in terrain (no reward without risk). I have not heard of it being played differently.
Author:  Ginger [ Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: In cover / dangerous terrain or not
Thanks guys.
So basically we are saying that the edge of terrain extends out slightly with respect to infantry. They are effectively in terrain for shooting but outside with respect to embarking.
Is this worth an entry in the FAQ?
Author:  IJW Wartrader [ Sat Feb 25, 2017 1:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: In cover / dangerous terrain or not
A minor wrinkle for cover saves is 'The to hit modifier also applies if intervening terrain obscures the target partially from view.'.

As far as I'm aware, vehicles are able to claim the hit mod as long as LoF to them is partially obscured.
Author:  Legion 4 [ Sat Feb 25, 2017 4:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: In cover / dangerous terrain or not
I'd say Yes ... to both of your posts here ... Basically for the reasons I stated previously here. How you replicate that is based on the rule system you are using.
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