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[rules] pb with land aircrafts
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=29737		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  meg [ Sat Jun 06, 2015 5:04 pm ]
Post subject:  [rules] pb with land aircrafts
Hi,

back from the EEC, we have a small problem of rule by France, and hope you can solve it ;)

To be simple:

How do you play a land aircraft that is shot at by ennemy ground formations? For Blast markers? Can it be broken?

Its this section of the rules that caused the trouble:
4.2.7 Blast Markers
Aircraft that land are affected by any Blast makers they have picked up normally, and are allowed to rally in the end phase. Any additional Blast markers they pick up will be carried off with them if they later take off again

Thank

Pierre
Author:  Ginger [ Sat Jun 06, 2015 6:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [rules] pb with land aircrafts
Well, when the aircraft is in the air, it can collect BMs which do not break it in the normal sense. In this case, the BMs make it harder for the aircraft to activate on the following turn.

If the aircraft lands, it becomes a ground vehicle in all respects (see 4.2.7), and if it gains enough BMs it will become broken as usual. If the ground vehicle is Fearless (Landing Craft) then it does nothing else, however all non-Fearless ground vehicles will be destroyed if they remain within 15cm of enemy units after performing their withdrawal move (which is usually 0cm), or if they are broken again as part of a second assault. Equally, shooting at a broken unit will cause a further BM which usually causes more damage . . . .
Moral, do not leave an aircraft on the ground near enemy, because it is very vulnerable!

Note, an aircraft that is broken on the ground may still disengage, reverting to being an aircraft as soon as it takes off.
Author:  dptdexys [ Sat Jun 06, 2015 7:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [rules] pb with land aircrafts
Ginger wrote:
If the aircraft lands, it becomes a ground vehicle in all respects (see 4.2.7), and if it gains enough BMs it will become broken as usual. If the ground vehicle is Fearless (Landing Craft) then it does nothing else, however all non-Fearless ground vehicles will be destroyed if they remain within 15cm of enemy units after performing their withdrawal move (which is usually 0cm), or if they are broken again as part of a second assault. Equally, shooting at a broken unit will cause a further BM which usually causes more damage . . . .



A War Engine that becomes broken isn't auto destroyed for not getting out of 15cm of the enemy (aircraft are only auto destroyed if they lose an engagement action)

Section From 3.2.4 Blast Markers highlighted part that is usually missed.

Quote:
A broken war engine is assumed to have a number of Blast markers equal to its starting damage capacity for all rules purposes. If there are any enemy units within 15cms of the war engine after it makes a withdrawal then it suffers one extra point of damage (no save allowed) for each enemy unit that is within 15cms. Additional hits caused by losing an assault or receiving Blast markers while broken cause one point of
damage each. Roll for critical hits from these extra hits as you would normally.
Author:  dptdexys [ Sat Jun 06, 2015 8:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [rules] pb with land aircrafts
meg wrote:
To be simple:

How do you play a land aircraft that is shot at by ennemy ground formations? For Blast markers? Can it be broken?

Its this section of the rules that caused the trouble:
4.2.7 Blast Markers
Aircraft that land are affected by any Blast makers they have picked up normally, and are allowed to rally in the end phase. Any additional Blast markers they pick up will be carried off with them if they later take off again


as Ginger has stated, any landed Aircraft is treat as though it is a 0cm move War Engine.
It can be shot at as normal by ground forces which may break it or even destroy it.

If the Aircraft remains on the ground at the end of the turn and does not make a dis-engagement move of the table it can rally as any other ground formation would in the end phase. Whilst on the ground it is treat as a normal WE not an aircraft.

If it does dis-engage it takes any Blast Markers it has picked up during the turn with it and any more it picks up on the way off the board (more flak, wrong table edge and so forth). When an aircraft takes off in the end phase it is no longer treat as a ground WE and returns to using the aircraft rule of not being allowed to rally in the end phase.

I hope this following piece clears up the reading of the rule:-
Disengagement happens before any rallying so an aircraft on the ground cannot rally and then disengage.

Because of TSKNF marine special rule, a T/hawk that was broken whilst on the ground would take off with 4 BM's ( the number needed to break it) a Landing Craft that was broken whilst on the ground would leave with 8 BM's.
Author:  meg [ Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: [rules] pb with land aircrafts
Thank, that seems clear to me.

This part of the rules isn't the most clearer and often causes questions and difficulties.

Especially the fact that in 4.2.5
Quote:
Once landed, the aircraft is treated in all ways as a ground unit with a speed of 0


and after, you have the precisions for allocating the blast markers in 4.2.7:
Quote:
Aircraft formations collect Blast markers under the following circumstances:

Any aircraft formation that suffers any attacks (from ground flak or being intercepted) receives one Blast marker for coming under fire. The formation can only receive one Blast marker during the approach move and another Blast marker during the disengagement move, no matter how many different units from however many different formations attack it.
The aircraft receives one Blast marker for each aircraft unit that is shot down or point of damage that is suffered if it is a war engine.
The aircraft receives an extra Blast marker if it exits from any table edge other than its own table edge, to represent the possibility of it being attacked while flying back over enemy territory.

So you are wondering if the landed aircraft can be demoralized and receive blast markers for being under fire.

But now thats OK!
Author:  meg [ Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: [rules] pb with land aircrafts
Another question:

This situation has happend during the EEC:

The formation with the supcom is inside an aircraft and so is not on the table. The aircraft that is carrying the supcom formation fails his activation. Can you use the supcom reroll for the aircraft activation?

For me, answer is no, cause its the aircraft that use his initiative value and the supcom is not on the table.
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