Tactical Command
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landing and air assaults - when do you declare?
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=27358		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Dave [ Mon May 05, 2014 8:16 pm ]
Post subject:  landing and air assaults - when do you declare?
When exactly do you guys declare you're 1) landing and 2) performing a an air assault, as it doesn't specify in the rulebook.

I'm assuming that most people declare landing after CAP and FLAK are resolved as if you declared it when the AC activates, it could end up immediately broken upon landing and if within 15cm of the enemy be destroyed.

For air assaults I'm less certain. Do people declare: when rolling to activate, when deciding to land or after landing?
Author:  Tiny-Tim [ Mon May 05, 2014 8:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: landing and air assaults - when do you declare?
I normally declare the intention to air assault at the start of the action, but if I take too many BM I'll change my mind and keep the aircraft in the air. It is a very rare event though.

Straight landing is normally declared after Flak and CAPs around here.
Author:  Ginger [ Tue May 06, 2014 1:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: landing and air assaults - when do you declare?
The player declares a "ground attack", then rolls for that activation. At this point the aircraft is committed to attacking enemy ground units, flies on to the battlefield and approaches the target.
4.2.5 says
Quote:
Landing: Aircraft with a transport capability can land after making their approach move and having being fired upon by any enemy flak.
This suggests to me that the decision to land is made after Flak attacks have been resolved, allowing the Transport to avoid being broken on landing.
Author:  Ironhelm [ Tue May 06, 2014 2:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: landing and air assaults - when do you declare?
Ginger wrote:
The player declares a "ground attack", then rolls for that activation. At this point the aircraft is committed to attacking enemy ground units, flies on to the battlefield and approaches the target.
4.2.5 says
Quote:
Landing: Aircraft with a transport capability can land after making their approach move and having being fired upon by any enemy flak.
This suggests to me that the decision to land is made after Flak attacks have been resolved, allowing the Transport to avoid being broken on landing.


+1 -- this is when I do it. Usually preceded with, "incoming ground attack - light 'em up boys!"
Author:  jimmyzimms [ Tue May 06, 2014 3:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: landing and air assaults - when do you declare?
Yup. That's how we've always done it too.
Author:  Dave [ Tue May 06, 2014 4:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: landing and air assaults - when do you declare?
And what about air assaults guys?
Author:  Onyx [ Tue May 06, 2014 9:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: landing and air assaults - when do you declare?
Air Assaults are just another form of Ground Attack.
I've always played that the controlling player can choose to land or not at the end of the approach move.
It's pretty rare for a air transport to collect enough BM's to break though.
Ork Landas and Chaos Thunderhawks (did this question arise whilst play-testing the Emperor's Children? ) would be most likely I'd suspect.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Tue May 06, 2014 10:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: landing and air assaults - when do you declare?
Quote:
This suggests to me that the decision to land is made after Flak attacks have been resolved

I agree, and this is how I've played it in the past.

Quote:
And what about air assaults guys?

Quote:
I've always played that the controlling player can choose to land or not at the end of the approach move.

And again, this is how I've played it.
Author:  Ginger [ Tue May 06, 2014 10:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: landing and air assaults - when do you declare?
I think we are all agreed :)

From 4.2
Quote:
Ground Attack: Take an action test for the formation and if it passes set up the formation touching your table edge. The formation may then make an approach move and then attack enemy ground units. In the end phase, the formation must make a disengagement move and exit the table.
My emphasis
This suggests that the aircraft may choose to move to a point where there is no enemy formation in it's firing arc, or that it may choose not to attack. So again, I think this choice is made after Flak attacks.

So to clarify,
  1. The player declares "Ground attack" and passes
  2. The Transport makes it's approach move to a point somewhere on the battlefield. This does not have to be a point where there is an enemy formation is within Arc, Range and LoS of it's weapons.
  3. Defensive Flak and then enemy Flak are resolved.
  4. The transport then decides whether to land, and whether to assault or shoot.
Author:  kyussinchains [ Tue May 06, 2014 1:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: landing and air assaults - when do you declare?
Onyx wrote:
Air Assaults are just another form of Ground Attack.
I've always played that the controlling player can choose to land or not at the end of the approach move.
It's pretty rare for a air transport to collect enough BM's to break though.
Ork Landas and Chaos Thunderhawks (did this question arise whilst play-testing the Emperor's Children? ) would be most likely I'd suspect.


^this

although I'd lump vampire raiders in there too, flak and an intercept and they're broken if they land...
Author:  MephistonAG [ Tue May 06, 2014 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: landing and air assaults - when do you declare?
Well if they land and assault as the A/C and the units within are now one formation it would take a hell of a lot of BM's from flak to break it! In fact I don't think a vampire could gain enough BM's without being dead!
Author:  Onyx [ Tue May 06, 2014 1:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: landing and air assaults - when do you declare?
kyussinchains wrote:
Onyx wrote:
Air Assaults are just another form of Ground Attack.
I've always played that the controlling player can choose to land or not at the end of the approach move.
It's pretty rare for a air transport to collect enough BM's to break though.
Ork Landas and Chaos Thunderhawks (did this question arise whilst play-testing the Emperor's Children? ) would be most likely I'd suspect.


^this

although I'd lump vampire raiders in there too, flak and an intercept and they're broken if they land...

Good point!
You can tell how often I've played with Eldar eh ;D
Considering we've got at least 3 new Eldar armies lining up for the June campaign and tournament, I can see my Iron Warriors are going to get a crash course in Eldar air power... :D
Author:  captPiett [ Tue May 06, 2014 4:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: landing and air assaults - when do you declare?
This question actually arose during a game between an IG variant list (ask Dave about his "Otterian Guard" if you're curious) and the red corsairs. Between my CAP and flak the RC thunderhawk had two BMs, and even though the assault it took part in was successful for the RC, it was within 15cm of another one of my FMs. It was broken and hence was hacked down. I was curious if a player owning a transporting aircraft could decide to abort an assault if it was clear the aircraft would break upon landing.
Author:  Ginger [ Tue May 06, 2014 4:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: landing and air assaults - when do you declare?
As Meph pointed out, the THawk and contents are a single formation until the end of the assault resolution so would not break up to that point, and with TSKNF would not be broken then even with 2 BMs. However it is relatively easy to add further BMs to break the THawk and leave it within 15cm of some enemy unit thus ensuring its destruction. Obviously, losing the assault automatically destroys the TH anyway.

The Vampire is much more fragile as it can easily accumulate 2 BMs from AA, a single hit, or the BM from OW fire so can finish the assault "broken" even if the Eldar won.
Author:  Dwarf Supreme [ Tue May 06, 2014 5:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: landing and air assaults - when do you declare?
captPiett wrote:
I was curious if a player owning a transporting aircraft could decide to abort an assault if it was clear the aircraft would break upon landing.

I wouldn't have a problem with the player deciding to abort a ground assault.
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