Tactical Command
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Assaulting a broken unit
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=25971		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Jordan [ Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Assaulting a broken unit
Hey there all,

Quick question for you. How exactly does it work when one assaults a broken unit? A friend of mine and I were looking through the rulebook to determine what exactly is the negative impact for the broken unit being assaulted, but could not determine what it was. Thanks!
Author:  Spectrar Ghost [ Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Assaulting a broken unit
It works exactly as assaulting an unbroken formation, with the following exceptions: If the broken formation loses the engagement it is scattered and destroyed (excepting Fearless units). If it wins the engagement it automatically rallies.
Author:  dptdexys [ Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Assaulting a broken unit
Jordan wrote:
Hey there all,

Quick question for you. How exactly does it work when one assaults a broken unit? A friend of mine and I were looking through the rulebook to determine what exactly is the negative impact for the broken unit being assaulted, but could not determine what it was. Thanks!


The negative effect of being assaulted whilst broken is that if they lose the assault they are wiped out (apart from Fearless units). A broken formation that wins an assault doesn't take any extra casualties from the BM's that would normally be added.
Note :- the formation does not auto rally if it wins the assault


From the Master FAQ.
Quote:
Q: Another clarification. What happens when a broken unit is engaged?
A: A broken formation which loses is wiped out. A broken formation which wins takes no further BMs or casualties and does not have to withdraw (but is, of course, still broken).
Author:  Spectrar Ghost [ Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Assaulting a broken unit
My bad. Thought I remembered that from somewhere.

This is why I didn't sign up for the Rules position...
Author:  Ginger [ Sun Sep 22, 2013 5:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Assaulting a broken unit
Also note that in the assault resolution it counts as having the number of BMs that causes it to be broken. So a broken Ork warband of 6x units counts as havin 6x BMs, while a broken Marine tactical squad of 4x units counts as having 8x BMs
Author:  Jordan [ Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Assaulting a broken unit
Thanks all!
Author:  GlynG [ Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Assaulting a broken unit
Ginger wrote:
Also note that in the assault resolution it counts as having the number of BMs that causes it to be broken. So a broken Ork warband of 6x units counts as havin 6x BMs, while a broken Marine tactical squad of 4x units counts as having 8x BMs

This is incorrect Ginger, they count as having as many blast markers as units, even if they are Space Marines.

The standard rules of 1 BM per unit apply and there's even a FAQ question confirming this below the ATSKNF rule:
Quote:
Q:Do broken Space Marine units count as having one BM per unit or one-half BM per unit in Assault resolution?
A:One BM per unit.
Author:  Ginger [ Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Assaulting a broken unit
Oops, my bad :-[
Thanks Glyn
Author:  MikeT [ Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Assaulting a broken unit
GlynG wrote:
Ginger wrote:
Also note that in the assault resolution it counts as having the number of BMs that causes it to be broken. So a broken Ork warband of 6x units counts as havin 6x BMs, while a broken Marine tactical squad of 4x units counts as having 8x BMs

This is incorrect Ginger, they count as having as many blast markers as units, even if they are Space Marines.

The standard rules of 1 BM per unit apply and there's even a FAQ question confirming this below the ATSKNF rule:
Quote:
Q:Do broken Space Marine units count as having one BM per unit or one-half BM per unit in Assault resolution?
A:One BM per unit.



But.....surely a hypothetical broken space marine formation of 4 units would count 8 blast markers ( the number needed to break the formation) which would then get halved as per ATSKNF assault rules to 4?
Author:  Tiny-Tim [ Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Assaulting a broken unit
I'm going to have to have a look for the reference now, but my understanding of the rule was that if the formation is broken then it counts as having more BM than the enemy.

But like I say I'll have to find it now.
Author:  GlynG [ Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Assaulting a broken unit
MikeT wrote:
But.....surely a hypothetical broken space marine formation of 4 units would count 8 blast markers ( the number needed to break the formation) which would then get halved as per ATSKNF assault rules to 4?


Nope. The rules for broken formations are they counts as one blast marker. To copy and paste from the rulebook:

Quote:
1.13.4Blast Markers and Broken Formations
Broken formations count as having as many Blast markers as units for any rules purposes.


The ATSKNF special rule gives the SM various advantages re: blast markers but makes no mention of blast markers after being broken, therefore the normal rules of 1 per unit apply.
Author:  Blip [ Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Assaulting a broken unit
Quote:
Q:Do broken Space Marine units count as having one BM per unit or one-half BM per unit in Assault resolution?
A:One BM per unit.
[/quote]

Surely this FAQ is already asking directly about the ATSKNF special rule - otherwise why would it refer to 1/2 BMs ?

I read it as MikeT ie : marines count as having 2BMs per unit which is then halved to 1 per unit - Specifically not what i think is your interpretation : 1 per unit (as the main rules you have quoted ) which is then halved to make them less suppressed than before they were broken ! :)
Author:  Ginger [ Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Assaulting a broken unit
Here is Neal's reply to our question.

ATSKNF causes the marines to have double the BMS for being broken, but then halves that number in the assault resolution. So 4x broken marines have the equivalent of 8x BMs, but in the assault resolution they only count as having 4x BMs. So in that sense Glyn, we are both right ;)

So this means that marines are still more effective than other races when broken.
Author:  Commissar Holt [ Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Assaulting a broken unit
Wheter a question comes up with ATSKNF, just apply the version which favours the Space Marines!
Author:  MikeT [ Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Assaulting a broken unit
ATSKNUR


And They Shall Know No Unfavorable Rulings
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