Silly question, but it keeps coming up with opponents :

Can a flak unit fire at A/C even if it has blast markers (not broken) ? I guess it can because otherwise it would be really easy to suppress AA fire (as there is generally only 1-2 per formation) but just wanted clarification.

Here's the relevant FAQ:
Section 4.2.4 of the NetEA Tournament Pack.
That should help

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Great, thanks.

My opponent's firestorms just got less scary

Again, here's another relevant FAQ:

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Source for that? The only thing I find in the rules is that flak units that are out of range are allowed to fire as long as the aircraft was within range at some point during the approach move. Technically the rules agree with this, as they only permit the unit to fire without being in range, but it's also easy to argue that the shots should be counted as if they were made at some point during the approach when the aircraft was actually in range.

Well there's this FAQ entry:

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Doesn't really apply. Just confirms that suppression applies "from the rear", without really saying much about what "the rear" is.

If this had been Warmachine I'd have no doubt that you check for suppression for where the aircraft ends its move, but this is a GW game.

If the aircrafts position is only checked at the end of the move, that means that if it passes directly over a formation with flak units the flak would be suppressed if they were at the "front" (where the aircraft is coming towards the formation) and not at the "back" (when the aircraft is moving away from the formation).

A "common sense" approach would be for the flak unit to choose its firing point and check both range and suppression to that point. Not sure if that's the right way to play it.

firing takes place after the aircraft has finished its move
so if "back of formation" is checked relative to the aircrafts position when flak is fired, that must be after the move has finished

thus, based on where the aircraft ends. this can result in some weird circumstances, but not that many really.

the bigger contention in this line of arguement is this:

if an aircraft flies through flak, but ends outside of it, do you still check suppression based on when it was in range? if so, at what point?

(examples being: if i end outside of autocannon range, does the IG player still get to use the infantry for suppression purposes before getting to the flak, or does it only trigger for the flak?
what if move through a formation of hypothetically, HB armed infantry with a hydra, and end in range of the hydra but out of the HB range? the only viable suppression target at "end of move" is the hydra, but if i passed within HB range at one point, can the opponent declare point of fire to be then, and thus still count the HBs?)

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Do realise that the air rules are somewhat "clunky" and this is one of the aspects that causes some confusion. Here are the relevant sections of the rules:- and
So firing (and suppression) is resolved at the end of the move, but units eligible for firing and suppression are determined during the move.

To be eligible for suppression, a unit only needs to be in range (and LoS) - it does *not* need to have the correct weapon type (AP/AT/AA) so in this case even units armed only with "small arms" that have a notional range of 15cm may qualify for suppression if the a/c passed within 15 cm of them. This is why the a/c must trace its flight across the table to allow the players to determine whether it passed through potential AA and suppression arcs of fire.

As an example, a formation of two units with one BM, one of which is a ground AA unit

• If the a/c passes directly over both units from front to back and ends nearer to the AA unit, the other unit may be used for suppression.
• If the A/c flew outside the notional arc of fire of the other unit, or if the a/c ends its move nearer to the other unit, then the AA unit is supressed and may not fire.

Alternately:



units with AA weapons can count as shooting even if they are no longer in range. this rule is not also present in the non AA weapons section, and does not apply to non AA weapons

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Like I said, it is "clunky"

From the suppression rules, eligibility for suppression is determined at the same time as eligibility for firing. Normally this is done as part of the firing process. Here, the question is whether the A/c is 'in range' for firing purposes and determining whether other units are 'in range' for suppression purposes must happen at the same time.

However, the suppression process is completed in when resolving the firing (at the end of the A/c move). At that point, only those units that are eligible may be used for either firing or suppression.

If AA is only fired after the aircraft has finished moving how would it be shot at when it disengages, as it only finishes it's move when it is of table.

IIRC Neal said the same thing as Hena; the A/c disengages to a table edge where firing + suppression is resolved, taking into account the physical positions of all the units at that point.