Tactical Command
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/

E-A Thousand Sons List
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=243		 Page 1 of 4
Author:  nealhunt [ Wed Jul 09, 2003 3:12 pm ]
Post subject:  E-A Thousand Sons List
Per Shadow Hunter's request...

Tsons infantry currently have no distance weapons (small arms oonly), and are Immune to Panic with a Reinforced Armor save.

Personally, I think the 1 psyker/9 Tsons should yield a heavy weapon for every other stand. ?Doombolt and Bolt of Change are nasty. ?Leaders (Warlords, etc.) should get the Smite ability.

I think Raptors should be replaced with chosen disc riders and/or possessed with wings (daemonic flight in 40K). ?They should have the stats of Raptors, with either an extra attack or a MW attack to reflect mounts and psyker abilities (all possessed and chosen are psykers). ?Obviously, they should have a higher point cost.

No bikes, since bikers can't have the Mark of Tzeentch. ?Possibly, possessed and disc riders could have slightly different stats to make up for this.

No havocs, since they can't have the Mark.

Tsons Terminators could arguable be reduced in power (since you can take regular TSons upgraded to termies w/o heavy weapons), but I think since they would still get psykers, and chosen would get psykers and heavy weapons both, we should split the difference and leave them.

I would add a Silver Tower weapons platform in place of the Defiler options.

I also think Tsons dreads would carry two weapons. ?in 40K they get their flame-defense against HTH, so I would field them exclusively as 2-weapon configurations. ?I'm very open on this, though.

For this same reason, I might bump the CC of their preds/LRs.

Obviously, aircraft would be the Tzeentch version, rather than the new modified Imperials.

I like Traitor legion titans, so I would put them in the list. ?IIRC, the fluff has at least one Tzeentch-dedicated legion, though I can't remember specifics, and might be wrong.

I'll try to cobble together some points/detachments later today.

==========

I looked up the titan legions. ?Apparently there are the Suns of Damnation (Citadel Journal - formerly Burning Stars) and the Stormlords (Inquisitor magazine - blue and purple colors).
Author:  Shadow Hunter [ Wed Jul 09, 2003 4:32 pm ]
Post subject:  E-A Thousand Sons List
Thanks for making a start.


What I need to do is have a good look at the current chaos list. ?I only have the previous ?version, not the black legion one, and haven't really looked at that.  So as yet, I have nothing to work on/with.

I would give the stands a doombolt shot to represent the sorcerer too. ?Something similar to the stats for a heavy bolter.

You've put in some good ideas.

1K sons have two types of termies. ?Rubric ones and the chosen. ?In 40K they are very different, I'm not sure if that could be taken into consideration for EpicA.

The Chosen termies are all sorcerers, so would be powerful in shooting and HTH. ?The rubric are okay in both, but more resiliant.  I would like different stats, but realise its probably not practical.  The models would look too similar, and it'd get confusing.  So maybe you're right with taking an average, and using standard termies.

There's no restriction for 1Ksons taking a defiler.  Did you mean to not let them have it?

My Dread is an important part of my 40K list.  And I know many players prefer the double weapon platform.  The only reason I haven't yet is lack of money. (I want the forgeworld version eventually. Until then, I have to use my converted marine dread).

Do you think there would be enough variety with an epic 1Ksons list?  It is sounding pretty limited. (just like the 40K list  :laugh:   )

I'll have a look at the chaos list tonight, so I can try and add real input, instead of the drivvle that just came out. :l
Author:  nealhunt [ Wed Jul 09, 2003 5:37 pm ]
Post subject:  E-A Thousand Sons List
>> I only have the previous ?version, not the black legion one, and haven't really looked at that.

Personally, I don't like the list. ?FYI, all the lists have been intended to be Black Legion lists.

>> I would give the stands a doombolt shot to represent the sorcerer too. ?Something similar to the stats for a heavy bolter.

Doombolts are 15cm, AP4+. ?Bolt of Change are 30CM MW5+, per the current stat lines for daemons. ?I think BoC is more approriate. ?It makes shooting a good propsect without being ridiculous.

>> There's no restriction for 1Ksons taking a defiler. ?Did you mean to not let them have it?

Actually, I was thinking of Obliterators when I typed "Defiler." ?Obliterators can't have a Mark of Tzeentch, so they are out. ?Defilers are fine. ?Silver Towers should be an excellent candidate for AA abilities, which matches up nicely with removing the Obliterator AA capability.

>> Do you think there would be enough variety... sounding pretty limited. (just like 40K)

I think it should be fairly limited in order to match the character of the Tsons.

I think a boost to their strategy rating is in order for their seer abilities. ?I am considering d6+1 (for a 2d6+1 roll - average 8) and d3+2 (d6+d3+2 - average 7.5).

=============

I knocked out a draft, but I don't have the old stats for the Doomwing and Firelord.  If someone could post them, that would be great.
Author:  MaksimSmelchak [ Wed Jul 09, 2003 6:52 pm ]
Post subject:  E-A Thousand Sons List
Wow! You guys have done an excellent job so far with this list. I don't like chaos, but with a list like this I would be tempted to play them.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
Author:  nealhunt [ Wed Jul 09, 2003 8:34 pm ]
Post subject:  E-A Thousand Sons List
Okay, how does one go about posting a file to this board where people can read it? ?I have a TSons list worked up in MS Word format exactly as the official playtest lists.

I suppose if all else fails I could put it on the EpicA website with all the other fan lists, but I don't know if those who are interested are members already.

=======
I also came up ideas for with Rubric Termies versus Chosen Termies. ?Basically, the Rubric would turn in the autocannons for Immune to Panic and Invulnerability Save. ?I'm not sure if it would warrant a points reduction. ?Buy them in blocks of 4 just like regular termies. ?SM termies could be used for models because the Rubrics aren't mutated.

Chosen would keep everything, but add 1 BoC per stand (a lot of firepower). ?Obviously, they would be more expensive. ?I was thinking buy them in blocks of 2. ?Use normal CSM termie minis.

As of right now, though, I didn't put them in.
Author:  CyberShadow [ Wed Jul 09, 2003 10:34 pm ]
Post subject:  E-A Thousand Sons List
Quote (nealhunt @ 09 2003 July,20:34)
Okay, how does one go about posting a file to this board where people can read it? ?I have a TSons list worked up in MS Word format exactly as the official playtest lists.

Hi, great work with the list. Once this is done, you really should send it to Jervis and put it on the EpicA board. I am afraid that I have not allowed attachments to the board.

However, if you have web space, you can simply add a link to a post. If you have problems doing this, let me know and I can find some space. Also, I can convert to PDF if you would like.

All the best.
Author:  Shadow Hunter [ Thu Jul 10, 2003 9:13 am ]
Post subject:  E-A Thousand Sons List
Right, I had a look at the black legion list last night (more importantly all the 1Ksons relevant stuff).

BoC for the stands is fine by me, I only mentioned DB as thats what I use in 40K for my rubric squads.  I suppose with the horrors/flamers already having doombolt, you dont need it on the sons too.

Its a good idea using the marine termies for rubric sons, and shouldn't be too difficult to give them a little head dress.  Do you think adding BoC shot to the chosen would be enough to half the squad size?

What stats do you want for the tzeentch flier?  I remember that it was as good as a nightwing in epic40K, but thats all I can offer.

What do you think about the dread?  How about reducing its CC ability and giving it another weapon?  Maybe replace the autocannon and powerfist with twin lascannon and missilelauncher.

The Defiler and LoC will be the CC monsters.  The Dreads can stnad back with the Sons laying down fire power.

Do you think the 1K sons should have a 3+ firefight?  I was surprised it was 4+ same as the rest.

They should have something to represent the high percentage of psykers.  Something like cancelling other armies abilities on a roll of 4+ or something might be nice (thinking off the top of my head).  So, for example, when Eldar try to steal the initiative, you can use your Psychic powers to try and stop it.

I like the thought of disc riders.  It would give a unique look.  With all the vehicles, I dont think the variety will be as bad as I first thought.  I know they are supposed to be limited.

I'd like to see your list, If you dont get it up (ooer  :p   ) then email it me please to monkey_tin@hotmail.com
Author:  nealhunt [ Thu Jul 10, 2003 4:10 pm ]
Post subject:  E-A Thousand Sons List
I e-mailed it. ?Give it a look and let me know.

>> Do you think adding BoC shot to the chosen would be enough to half the squad size?

They are rare, too. ?Since they are only available as attachments rather than independent formations, I don't think reducing the squad size is that important.

>> What stats do you want for the tzeentch flier?

I made some up from memory. ?My idea on them is that Tzeentch should be second only to Eldar in airpower, but that they have a bigger emphasis on ground attack than air superiority.

The Doomwings come in 3s, the Firelords in pairs. ?I gave the Firelords a total of 3BP so that a pair is the same as a pair of Marauders, but a single one is still wicked on its own. ?

>> What do you think about the dread? ?

I kept the autocannon, traded the powerfist for an ML, and I am treating the warp flame vehicle upgrade as +1 Extra attacks. ?This gives it 2 attacks in CC, but the MW is gone, which sounds about right.

I also gave an option to upgrade the Armor formation with Warp flame for +25/vehicle. ?A fully tricked out formation - 6 preds, 4 LR, all with flames - comes out to an even 1000 points, but it is wicked at distance and in FF, and darn respectable in CC.

>> Do you think the 1K sons should have a 3+ firefight?

I think it's something to consider. ?Unfortunately, it's part of that Slow and Steady thing, which would also mean cutting their movement if we wanted to integrate it. ?Hmm...

>> They should have something to represent the high percentage of psykers.

I gave them +1 initiative (2d6+1 total), and the heavy weapons are all really psychic powers. ?I think that is enough character without making them too fiddly.

For the Storm Lords, I replaced 1 weapon system on each titan with an Inferno Cannon in keeping with the Tzeentch/flame connection.

==========

Cybershadow: ?I don't have access to a web page. ?If you would like to post my list to one, it would be appreciated.

==========

I also posted it to the EpicA mailing list for those who are members.
Author:  CyberShadow [ Thu Jul 10, 2003 11:22 pm ]
Post subject:  E-A Thousand Sons List
OK. I am at home right now, but I think that the Thousand Sons PDF file (freshly stolen from Pixelgeek, who transformed your original file), should now be...

...here...

(I hope that this works!  :p  )
Author:  nealhunt [ Fri Jul 11, 2003 4:50 pm ]
Post subject:  E-A Thousand Sons List
Cool.  Thanks.

Wow, 12+ hours and no flames yet...
Author:  dafrca [ Sat Jul 12, 2003 2:04 am ]
Post subject:  E-A Thousand Sons List
Neal,

Wouldn't want you to have to go too long without Flames...

So here's some...:p



dafrca
(Who knows he is being silly, but can't seem to help himself)
Author:  stormseer [ Sat Jul 12, 2003 1:32 pm ]
Post subject:  E-A Thousand Sons List
heh heh.. lol, madness..... :o

:laugh:
Author:  Periodic [ Sun Jul 13, 2003 6:12 pm ]
Post subject:  E-A Thousand Sons List
Ooh ooh, me likey alot. In fact, I think I like it more then Jervis' black legion list. It's got more personality, and it's better presented (hooray for  .pdf's), and it really feels very close to what you'd expect an official list to look like. Minus a few spelling errors, inconsistencies, and imbalances of course. ;)

Here's a few ideas that I'd like to throw about though:

Are you sure bolt of change warrants a MW5+? I mean, if I remember correctly (and this is of dubious probability), it isn't significantly more efficient then a lascannon, and a lascannon is still just AT5+. Perhaps MW6+ or AP5+/AT5+ would be more appropriate.

Instead of doing the guard 1-in-2 heavy weapons thing, why not make the the sorceror a character upgrade that can be purchased for every 2 thousand sons units in the detachment at a modest fee? He would bring with him the Bolt of Change power. So the basic thousand sons detachment would have 6 stands and have an option for 3 (or 2 if you count the sorceror lord) sorceror upgrades.

The Disc Riders detachments seem a little assault oriented. The models themselves are just guys with cloaks and a bolter. Mine are also mounted one to a stand. How many guys is this statline supposed to represent? It seems to me they should be less direct assault oriented, and perhaps more firefight/sorcery oriented.

It'd be cool if you worked in a way to throw in a daemon prince. I wanna break out Magnus and his EYE BEAM OF DEATH +4. :D

Perhaps a 'council of sorcerors' formation would be cool. It'd allow you to upgrade a stand and incorporate Magnus, or upgrade them all to ride discs and give you a way to incorporate them crazy disc disc riders.

Cool list though.

-Periodic.
Author:  Jimbo [ Sun Jul 13, 2003 10:22 pm ]
Post subject:  E-A Thousand Sons List
Quote (dafrca @ 12 2003 July,02:04)
So here's some...:p

giggles
Author:  dafrca [ Mon Jul 14, 2003 1:17 am ]
Post subject:  E-A Thousand Sons List
I couldn't help myself  :laugh:

Back on topic, I do like what you have started here guys.

dafrca
Page 1 of 4 All times are UTC [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/