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Scout screen vs. Air Assault
LordotMilk
 Post subject: Scout screen vs. Air Assault
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:56 pm 
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I know this have been discussed extensively before, but the thread going over it in detail did not reach a conclusion other than it needed to be cleared by the ERC. Has it been done?

The question being:

Can an Air Assault target a formation that is entirely within the ZoC of another formation, but not close enough to be intermingled with it?

For anything other than an Air Assault, the rule is pretty clear, except for when the "other" formation is behind the protected formation, situation for which the FAQ gives a clear answer.

Cheers,

LotM

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Onyx
 Post subject: Re: Scout screen vs. Air Assault
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:15 pm 
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Basically yes, an air assault can land in multiple zones of control and engage the nearest formation.
I am part of the NetEA rules/FAQ team headed by nealhunt.
The new FAQ will be made available when nealhunt has time to update it.

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kyussinchains
 Post subject: Re: Scout screen vs. Air Assault
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:22 pm 
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Onyx has it right, although EpicUK rule it differently at their tournaments so if you're ever at one of those, your air assaults can be screened in this way

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Re: Scout screen vs. Air Assault
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:29 pm 
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Might be useful to have a separate epicuk FAQ because there are a number of divergances now.

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Mephiston
 Post subject: Re: Scout screen vs. Air Assault
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:32 pm 
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kyussinchains wrote:
Onyx has it right, although EpicUK rule it differently at their tournaments so if you're ever at one of those, your air assaults can be screened in this way


When was that?

In truth it's pretty hard to do this screen other than at setup time.
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kyussinchains
 Post subject: Re: Scout screen vs. Air Assault
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:37 pm 
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I assumed from Steve54 and dptdexys comments (as well as asking them personally when this debate happened) that at an EUK event, if you surround a unit with scouts so it's not intermingled, but entirely covered by their ZoC, it cannot be air-assaulted..... unless I misunderstood them of course

to me the netEA ruling kinda makes sense, and as I understand it, the aircraft enters both ZoC at the same time and as long as it lands closer to the target than the scouts, can ignore the scouts ZoC

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LordotMilk
 Post subject: Re: Scout screen vs. Air Assault
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:43 pm 
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What are the other divergences between NetEA and EUK ruleswise?

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Mephiston
 Post subject: Re: Scout screen vs. Air Assault
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:49 pm 
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No idea.
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kyussinchains
 Post subject: Re: Scout screen vs. Air Assault
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:51 pm 
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disrupt hits on holofields don't cause BMs..... that's about it AFAIK

the other stuff like MW on fire dragon exarchs is explicitly stated in the eldar codex, as are any other rules (living metal for example)

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Mephiston
 Post subject: Re: Scout screen vs. Air Assault
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:55 pm 
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Closer isn't the relevant bit, its positioning so that it is in the targets ZOC, and base to base with at least one, otherwise your barge is illegal :). Without the barge you couldn't do this.

Well if we play don't ask Steve/Dave and we can play it this way :)

As to FAQ's Epic-UK state that you use the FAQ's on GW's site. Anything not covered in that will have to be referred to the TO or rules judge on the day of any event.
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kyussinchains
 Post subject: Re: Scout screen vs. Air Assault
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:00 pm 
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okay to risk opening another giant can of worms.....

say I move my vulnerable supreme commander, last survior of my BTS, then surround him with sentinels (in the same arrangement as the pips on the five side of a standard D6)

if there is room, surely you don't need to barge the target? can't you just land in both then immediately engage the supreme commander?

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LordotMilk
 Post subject: Re: Scout screen vs. Air Assault
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:01 pm 
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Mephiston wrote:
Closer isn't the relevant bit, its positioning so that it is in the targets ZOC, and base to base with at least one, otherwise your barge is illegal :). Without the barge you couldn't do this.

Well if we play don't ask Steve/Dave and we can play it this way :) .


In which version of the rules? EUK or NETEA?

Also, I thought this was not possible, barge or no barge in EUK?

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Mephiston
 Post subject: Re: Scout screen vs. Air Assault
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:09 pm 
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Guys, there are no netEA or EUK rules, there are only GW rules. Now there are some open questions within those rules that may or not have been ruled on by other parties, but the rules are constant.

The Air assault screening is an extrapolation of the screening from behind FAQ here -
Quote:
2.1.12 Scout
Q: It’s possible to place a Scout unit
just behind another friendly unit, so
that the Scouts 10cm ZOC covers the
friendly unit too. If this happens, can I
charge the non-Scout unit? The rules
say I can’t enter a ZOC unless I’m
charging the unit it belongs to.
A: You are, of course, allowed to charge
the unit! If an explanation is needed, then
let’s say that the rule for moving into base
contact with the enemy takes precedence
over the rule for not entering another
unit’s ZOC. However, any player who has
attempted to use this tactic to stop a
charge should hang their head in shame!


This indicates that entering the targets ZOC TAKES PRECEDENCE. So if you have no plan to enter the traget ZOC you can't do it (my reading of course, ymmv).

So in your example you could land 5cm away and put 2 stands into base to base with the SC. And the rest would have to stay on board the AC.
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Re: Scout screen vs. Air Assault
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:12 pm 
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Teleporting War Engines roll one dice for bm's regardless of dc in EUK. There may be more divergences, which is why a FAQ might be useful, it's hard to keep track.

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Mephiston
 Post subject: Re: Scout screen vs. Air Assault
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:26 pm 
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Ok I've just checked and if there were a netEA version of the rules the last 'official' update to the FAQ's was in 2010 (the date on the master list on this forum).

Anything since then is still opinion and not ratified (if such a thing is possible).

The bit's of the rules we are talking about are really corner case in most situations, and come up so very rarely in game.
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