So, the rules do not expressly stipulate hoe to handle barrages, and it seems that different groups play this differently.

The way we play it:

- Shooting formation may choose to fire its barrages first or after its other weapons;

- Place the barrage template according to the rule that you must place it in order to touch as many units as possible, roll to hit on each model under it separately, roll saves, remove models.

In the case of MW barrages, they are resolved after the normal shooting, but after or before other MW shots according to the shoting player's wishes.

The timing rule is abit clunky but as its the shooting player who chooses, we are pretty satisfied with it.

What has become an issue however is that this system allows for barrage "sniping", aka picking enemy valuable units to place under the template. Of course the defender could place his special unit seprately from the others so as to allow for difficult barrage placement, but this often results in the commander being in the front lines for other types of grief, ie assaults or regular shooting.

It would not be much of an issue, if barrages used like this are basically better at sniping than regular fire, when barrages are typically supposed to be less precise.

Any thoughts on this?

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Place your commander/valuable unit separately at the back, he is now safe from all but the largest multi-template barrages.

Cluster your forces up, and yes you do risk your commander/valuable unit being hit - it's an intended part of the game that's supposed to represent the danger of plunging artillery fire hitting units that wouldn't normally be hit by direct fire weapons, especially if your commander decides to hang around at the area of his formation that offers the enemy the densest target for artillery fire.

On the other hand, if you spread your forces too widely trying to minimise the impact of barrages, again you'll become vulnerable but this time to assaults - again an intended part of the game.


As to sequence, I generally play barrages first, then normal shooting and allocate normal hits to units not hit by the barrage (at least until you've hit every unit once, then start doubling up as normal). For MW barrages, i think normal hits can be allocated to units that have been hit with MW barrage hits, potentially killing the affected unit and "wasting" the MW hit.

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Lol! I'm not touching this one with a bargepole! (Waits for E&C)

There's been quite some debate over this one for some time and it did get a bit heated. The barrage rules are confusing to say the least.

The rules say that you hit exactly what is under the template but this clashes with the line that expressly states that barrages aren't meant to snipe out important characters.

So for e.g. if I place the template so that it covers 3 stands of guard and a commissar, I'd always previously rolled 4 dice and applied the hits front to back as per normal shooting. However the use of the word exactly in the rules has lead others to believe that you roll to see if you hit the commissar and then the 3 stands of infantry. Now to me this makes little sense as the end result is that I can try and snipe important characters in this way - which is expressly forbidden. However I've decided for an easy life just to go with the common usage which is the latter interpretation.

So there you go.

I thought most EUK players still play by the "use normal shooting" house rule anyway?

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Not that I'm aware of, I know the Flame On guys like the non-sniping method. I'm happy to play whatever my opponent prefers which I think is the most common stance.
As a tournament organiser I say you're both adults decide in the 5min warm up

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Yeah we switched over to the snipey version a while back, to keep things simple and also to annoy Si, who just LOVES having his Tyranid warriors sniped out of assault swarms. (We love ya, Si!)

Huh, just Mephiston then, heh. :-p

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The 5-minute warm-up is well and good, but for me, who don't usually play outside my own playgroup, it gets so that I'm not even that aware of what issues are contentius. Makes me want to make a checklist to bring when I visist a friend who's living abroad for a tournament later this year. Everything went fine when I visited the Swedes, so maybe I'm worrying needlessly.

As Steve says, since the debate many / most E-UK players throw separate dice for each different unit / type, so characters and specialist units do get hit.

Players do need to remember to place the barrage hits first, then allocate all other hits to units that do not already have a hit. You should only go through the hit resolution once all hits are allocated, resolving MW hits after normal ones have been resolved.

And barrage 'sniping' can be mitigated by ensuring that you clump together a number of less valuable units to force the placement of the template over them rather than the character / leader that you are trying to preserve. However this tactic can also be disrupted by several formations firing at the target formation and killing some of the units in the clump.

I never knew this was an issue, I always play that you can 'snipe' targets with barrages and roll separate dice for command models, hydras etc.... Works fine in my experience

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What kyuss said

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Ditto.

My understanding (and a quick reread to check my memory isn't failing!) was that the rules suggest you should roll to hit each different unit type under a barrage.

Where does the confusion come from?

Cheers
Reedar

Only situation I play differently is when there are a load of similar units under the barrage and then to save time those are all rolled to save at once and removed front to back. Otherwise all's fair game if under the template. Don't consider it sniping at all.

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The confusion lies in different interpretations of what was just written

The original interpretation was to roll for all infantry hits, all vehicle hits etc as separate 'pools' of dice, allocating front-to-back within the template the hits caused to each 'group', as per usual firing. (Note players used to leave 'vital' units at the rear of the formation so they never got hit)

The now widely accepted interpretation is to roll for each unit separately, so the 'special' units under the template will have a chance of being hit, irrespective of where they are located within the template.

Do you see the difference

And it is possible to do a limited amount of 'speed rolling' provided the units are identical; but for example, you would roll for LV separately from INF and any characters separately from non-character units etc.

It shouldn't matter which order you do the attacks, wether barrage first or second, as all shooting has to be done before hits are placed and saves are rolled for (even if using normal and MW attacks).
As an example,
A Basilisk Formation shooting at an Ork Warband with the grots and boys clustered to keep the Warlord Nob safe from the barrage.
You couldn't try to get rid of the grots/boys by choosing to use the heavy bolters first then hoping to have stripped away the grots/boys and have the barrage be used to target the Warlord Nob. The Barrage template would still have to go on the grots/boys as there shouldn't have been any casualties yet.


This is down to how your group wants to play.
The "official rules" are to roll individually by different type, if both players agree then play however you want if you can't agree then play the "official" way or even alternate each time you play.