Tactical Command
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The Epic ecosystem
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=23055		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Matus [ Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:44 am ]
Post subject:  The Epic ecosystem
Hi, I'm new to epic, I've been playing and lurking on forums for a couple of months now and I'm loving the game more than I expected. The speed, simplicity and cheapness makes for a perfect stress free game. However the fractured nature of the system since Games Workshop stopped support does not. I've stublled across numerous different list, variations, compendiums, codecies and handbooks, all slightly different. I've grasped the fact that development seems to be continued by different organisations.

Despite living in the UK, I decided to try and use publications stamped NetEPIC as I generally liked thier style. I though that by using the 2012 Compendium, the 2008 Handbook and that cool website where you can select NetEPIC Armageddon, my friends and I would be using one rule set. However since I've started to notice differences (website vindicators are one price, in the Compendium they seem to be another, and in some places are MW, others AT/AP). I'm starting to get a little confused :(

With the exception of an introduction on BOLS a while back, nowhere can I find an explanation of the current state of the ecosystem as it stands. Are there any nice, historically minded fourumites who could explain the events following the end of GW development, who the various organisations are, how they came about , where on the web they are based (I think NE:A is based here right?) and what the definitive set of NE:A pubications are?

Thanks ;D
Author:  wargame_insomniac [ Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Epic ecosystem
Hi and welcome

I know nothing about NetEpic so will let someone better qualified to answer that side. But I know that NetEpic still has some active members here.

When GW released EA there was open playtesting by the community on this and the SG forums. When GW stopped support for SG this playtesting continued and developed into Net EA. So Net EA is just a continuation of original official GW work with extra army lists added.

The 2012 Net EA Compendium is in final stages of being proof read and typos being corrected. This contains army lists for all of the various races:
-Approved lists are pretty final and won't change apart from the occasional annual tweaking
-Developmental lists have been extensively playtested and might have a few smaller changes to come
-Experimental lists are at the early changes of playtesting and thus subject to significant change.

The development and playtesting area of the fourm is at:
viewforum.php?f=109

Obviously lists in this area are still being worked on and subject to change. If you want more stable lists then suggest you stick to the approved lists in Net EA 2012 Compedium- these won't change for at least a year.

As well as this then various countries have their own regionally developed army lists. This includes Epic UK and France. If you are intereted in those then you would need to speak to relevant people. These army lists are often designed specifically for tournament play and will often have less choice of units/options.

Hope that helps as a starting point.

Cheers

James
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Epic ecosystem
I live in the uk too and also generally use the Net EA lists developed here on tactical command, rather than the army lists developed by the EpicUK tournament organisers.

Everyone uses the same core rules found on the gw website, the differences a restricted to unit stats and army lists.
Author:  Ulrik [ Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Epic ecosystem
I'd note that the 2008 Handbook and the Epic Compendium 2.0 (link to the last one: http://www.taccmd.tacticalwargames.net/ ... 69&t=15716) is something a bit different again. I *think* they were made obsolete when the 2009 errata was incorporated into the PDF on GW's website, but I'm not certain.

I'm a bit confused myself sometimes, but I think this is correct:

- The current rules for playing the game is found in the updated rulebooks on the GW website. Both NetEA and EpicUK use these.

- The army lists in these books are considered outdated by many people, mostly because they have some glaring holes for minmaxing (cheap Warhounds for one thing). But overall they're decent enough, especially if the player isn't experienced enough to exploit them. They're also IIRC limited to two Space Marine lists, two Ork lists, one Imperial Guard list, one Eldar list and two Chaos lists.

- NetEA army lists are in the 2012 compendium, found in W_G's link

- EpicUK lists are found at http://epic-uk.co.uk These are lists developed and tested by EpicUK organisers for use in their tournaments

- France also has their own lists, but I haven't looked at them

As long as you agree on what core rules to use, you should be able to field rulebook armies, NetEA Approved/Developmental lists and EpicUK lists against each other without any big problems.
Author:  Tiny-Tim [ Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Epic ecosystem
Basically find a set of lists that you are happy with and play with them.

NetEA is a gobal exercise with a view to have a single point for lists that everyone around the world can play to.

EA France went their own way and produced some wonder lists for their own style.

EpicUK wanted to keep and expand the tournament scene in the UK. The style of testing is more towards tournament games rather than wider scenarios and the style of play of games in UK tournaments. This also lead to the production of new tournament lists which with a smaller development group could be completed quicker than the main NetEA Compendium. As EpicUK members also work on NetEA lists there is a degree of convergence and I can see this continuing more over the years.

So the choice is yours and your fellow players which lists to use as you are playing with your friends then I'm assuming that saying I'm using this list won't cause a problem & there are several tournaments/campaign weekends that allow any list. If you decide that you would like to test your play further with a meet and competitive play (tournament) run by EpicUK then you need to use our lists ;)

But at home DWTFYW ;D
Author:  Borka [ Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Epic ecosystem
Matus wrote:
...and that cool website where you can select NetEPIC Armageddon, my friends and I would be using one rule set. However since I've started to notice differences (website vindicators are one price, in the Compendium they seem to be another, and in some places are MW, others AT/AP). I'm starting to get a little confused :(


I guess you're refering to Adams site armyforge here? I don't think all list in the netEA section have been updated to 2012 army list commpendium status yet, that can explain à few of the discrepancies.

The 2008 handbook is great but many of the army list in it have been changed, and current lists can be found in the 2012 commpendium. The rules in the handbook are also outdated like Ulric pointed out, the rules at GW are the most current. So I'd advise not using the handbook.

Cheers!
Author:  Matus [ Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Epic ecosystem
Oops, when I said NetEPIC in my op i meant NEArmageddon. I relaise that NE is a continuation of an early edition. So, does the rulebook on the GW site contain all the changes made by the FAQs within the text, like the rulebook with al the blue text in (the handbook i think)?

So a good set would be:

- print out and bind for day to day use:
+GW's rule book from the site (not a hard copy)
+A recent copy of the Compendium 2012

- Army Forge for quick list making, but with an eye on the version number so I use the right stats to go with the right costs

- The epic uk codices if I want to play at a tournie

Is there somewhere for background info? Two decades of 40k play means I know what most entries are, but there is the odd thing, like a Lost and Damned Land transport, where I don't know what it is and how to find a wysiwyg miniature.
Author:  wargame_insomniac [ Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Epic ecosystem
Some but not all of the changes IIRC
Author:  madd0ct0r [ Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Epic ecosystem
this is something that really needs to be on the website.

you know. THE WEBSITE!. coff coff
Author:  CyberShadow [ Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Epic ecosystem
madd0ct0r wrote:
this is something that really needs to be on the website.

you know. THE WEBSITE!. coff coff


Website.... Website... Wasn't someone supposed to be working on that?

:geek I should get something up for this in the next couple of days.
Author:  wargame_insomniac [ Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Epic ecosystem
Thanks C/S
Author:  MikeT [ Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Epic ecosystem
Matus wrote:
like a Lost and Damned Land transport, where I don't know what it is and how to find a wysiwyg miniature.


When a unit entry is vague in this instance, it's normally deliberate, and referring to a large range of possible models.

In this case, it's referring to a whole range of non armoured wheeled transports, possibly even converted flatbed trucks etc. There's no official GW mini, but there's loads of 6mm figure ranges, and just about any infantry transport from a 6mm WW II range would do fine.
Author:  Matus [ Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Epic ecosystem
MikeT wrote:
In this case, it's referring to a whole range of non armoured wheeled transports, possibly even converted flatbed trucks etc. There's no official GW mini, but there's loads of 6mm figure ranges, and just about any infantry transport from a 6mm WW II range would do fine.


So it literally means a transport that goes on the land, not Land as in the Techno-archaeologist Arkhan Land. I thought it referred to a STC like the Land Raider, Land Crawler or the Land Speeder. Hmm... need a cheap supplier of 6mm trucks to the UK then...
Author:  Ulrik [ Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Epic ecosystem
Matus wrote:
So it literally means a transport that goes on the land, not Land as in the Techno-archaeologist Arkhan Land. I thought it referred to a STC like the Land Raider, Land Crawler or the Land Speeder. Hmm... need a cheap supplier of 6mm trucks to the UK then...


Could mean both, I think. Not everybody is happy with the retcon that is Arkhan Land.
Author:  carlos [ Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Epic ecosystem
Lots of v/ cheap 6mm trucks @ irregular - http://www.irregularminiatures.co.uk/
Go on the 6mm then the WW2 section. Some Irregular minis are a bit iffy but the WW2 stuff is safe.
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