Tactical Command
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/

What is missing from the E-A rules?
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=222		 Page 1 of 4
Author:  Von Kempln [ Wed Jun 04, 2003 5:18 am ]
Post subject:  What is missing from the E-A rules?
Hello all,

I'm new to Epic-Armageddon and I'd like to get all of your opinions on my Ork army list. I know that a 2,000 point army is a little on the small side.

? ? Uge warband w/Oddboy
? ? Big warband w/6 Nobz,5 Komandoes, Oddboy
? ? Kult of Speed (5 warbikes)
? ? Mekboy Stompa Mob w/2 Stompas
? ? Mekboy Gunzmob w/2 Big Gunz,Oddboy

What do you think I need to add/take away? ?
Any suggestions would be welcome.
Author:  MaksimSmelchak [ Wed Jun 04, 2003 6:58 am ]
Post subject:  What is missing from the E-A rules?
I'm new to Epic-Armageddon and I'd like to get all of your opinions on my Ork army list. I know that a 2,000 point army is a little on the small side.

   Uge warband w/Oddboy
   Big warband w/6 Nobz,5 Komandoes, Oddboy
   Kult of Speed (5 warbikes)
   Mekboy Stompa Mob w/2 Stompas
   Mekboy Gunzmob w/2 Big Gunz,Oddboy

What do you think I need to add/take away?  
Any suggestions would be welcome.


Von Kempln,

I like your list. It seems pretty solid just as it is. I think that it will need very little modification to win games for you.

It seems to be a pretty balanced and flexible Ork army. You might want to specialize a little more. I personally like to always bring a Gargant as well. It frustrates the enemy to have a piece they probably can't destroy. Gargants also act as great shot absorbers.

Here's my suggestion how to use your list:

- Uge warband w/Oddboy:
Use this unit as your anchor in the center and have it alternate a fast advance with defensive function on overwatch.

- Big warband w/6 Nobz,5 Komandos, Oddboy:
This should be an agressive unit that wants to close with the enemy. I would deploy it near the center, but have it take a mostly take a flank route to the enemy.

- Kult of Speed (5 warbikes):
This is you flanker unit and useful for taking objectives. Don't use it as a "stand and deliver" unit because it can't take punishment.

- Mekboy Stompa Mob w/2 Stompas:
This is another unit that should be used aggresively. Use it as a ready reserve behind the infantry line to have a ready CC unit.  

- Mekboy Gunzmob w/2 Big Gunz,Oddboy:
I use gunz defensively behind Ork foot warbands. The gunz really discourage close combat since they will take a big chunk out of a charging force if on overwatch. Expect enemy artillary to go after them like a mosquito around sugar.

Best of luck and Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
Author:  nealhunt [ Wed Jun 04, 2003 4:49 pm ]
Post subject:  What is missing from the E-A rules?
>> Uge warband w/Oddboy

Why the oddboy? ?Personally, I don't think upgrading a nobz stand is worth the points.

>> ? Big warband w/6 Nobz,5 Komandoes, Oddboy

Same.

>> ? ?Kult of Speed (5 warbikes)

Fine, but I prefer them larger, just in case. ?If you base your bikes 2 per stand in the old-fashined way, you will get a couple extra stands out of it.

>> ? ?Mekboy Stompa Mob w/2 Stompas

5 Stompas is great. ?If you have a dread or two to drop out front, I think they help a lot.

>> ? ?Mekboy Gunzmob w/2 Big Gunz,Oddboy

More gunz! :D ? These are cheap, effective units. ?If you have enough boyz, I suggest adding 6 boyz/grotz to them in order to get the mob-up advantage and the grots to screen. ?Again, I think the Oddboy is questionable. ?A single 2BP attack is not that effective in most cases, but it's better than a Nobz upgrade.

I like it also, especially the fact that everything except the bikez can garrison.

===============

As far as other options:

I might go for 3 infantry units instead of 2. ?2 Big Warbands (still 20 units each), and a warband with the extra nobz and Komandoes as the "elite" company would give you more flexibility while not giving up much staying power or mob-up ability.

Stompas can be added to warbands, so you could do something like:

Big Warband w/ nobz and kommandoes (assault)
Big warband (flexible/assault)
Warband w/ 1 or 2 stompas (a take and hold force)
Stompas (3 or 4 is still enough to support other detachments)
Bikez
Gunz

Adding sormboyz could also boost your Warbands if you want to go with 3 instead of 2. ?More than one stand will hurt your garrison ability so one per formation is probably best, but I'd rather have some extra boyz and bikez than the Oddboyz for the same points.

In any case, not too shabby for 5 sprues of infantry.

You might also check out the "New to Orks" thread for more general discussion of formations.

http://www.epic40k.co.uk/epicomm....59;st=0
Author:  Von Kempln [ Wed Jun 04, 2003 6:13 pm ]
Post subject:  What is missing from the E-A rules?
Thanks everyone!

I am in Jackson, MS and Epic advice is hard to come by. ?
Most people, including myself, are loyal followers of Epic-40k. ?
Old habits die hard. :D

Right now I need to concentrate on getting my warbands painted. I'm trying to get a good color scheme for the Crooked Moon Tribe.

A gamer's job is never done!
Author:  nealhunt [ Wed Jun 18, 2003 8:32 pm ]
Post subject:  What is missing from the E-A rules?
Thread recycle:

Maksim:  Have you been reading the playtest forum?  There's a long thread about how the Ork army list is too tough.  

Basically, it revolves around the advantage that Orks can get by taking hordes of small formations.  All the extra activations gives them a lot of tactical flexibility and individual detachments are so small they are disposable.

I was initially resistant to the idea and thought that the battle reports sounded as if the Ork opponents were just making mistakes.  However, when every single playtest comes up with the same results, it's hard to believe that's coincidence.

I think the strategic flexibility must be a very strong point for the orks, but there seems to be something terribly un-Orky about it.
Author:  MaksimSmelchak [ Thu Jun 19, 2003 1:52 am ]
Post subject:  What is missing from the E-A rules?
Neal,

Maksim:  Have you been reading the playtest forum? There's a long thread about how the Ork army list is too tough.


I glanced over this post, but don't recall it in great detail other than what you specified below.

Basically, it revolves around the advantage that Orks can get by taking hordes of small formations.  All the extra activations gives them a lot of tactical flexibility and individual detachments are so small they are disposable.

I was initially resistant to the idea and thought that the battle reports sounded as if the Ork opponents were just making mistakes.  However, when every single playtest comes up with the same results, it's hard to believe that's coincidence.

I think the strategic flexibility must be a very strong point for the orks, but there seems to be something terribly un-Orky about it.

I haven't tried it yet, but i understand that it works pretty well.

I agree that it doesn't seem too terribly Orky, but with all the handicaps the Orks have recieved, it's sort of nice to see someone break the list and STILL have them win!  :D

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
Author:  dafrca [ Thu Jun 19, 2003 2:37 am ]
Post subject:  What is missing from the E-A rules?
If you could add anything into the Epic-A rules, what would you like to see added?

I would like to see any new ideas you may have, not just OOP models that are missing... ?:D

Dafrca
Author:  Legion 4 [ Thu Jun 19, 2003 3:47 am ]
Post subject:  What is missing from the E-A rules?
FA - indirect fire rules are poor ! :angry:
Author:  MaksimSmelchak [ Thu Jun 19, 2003 4:43 am ]
Post subject:  What is missing from the E-A rules?
I'd like to see more flavor rules such as existed before Jervis "simplified" the lists again.

I liked the original Ork flavor rules before they were simplified.

I'd like to see the PDF stuff come out as well.

It's a pity that Jervis wants to make sure that there are models before he releases lists. That's never stopped a dedicated gamer yet.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
Author:  nealhunt [ Thu Jun 19, 2003 3:02 pm ]
Post subject:  What is missing from the E-A rules?
I'm pretty happy with the rules as is.  The latest errata fixed most of the lingering problems I had.  I am concerned about the new drop pod deployment and the latest proposed Artillery changes.  Other than that, the mechanics are fine.

There are still a few minor army list tweaks that I think need to be done.  The Ork army is going to be forced to be more of a horde.  I would like to see a Kommandoes/Stormboyz formation.

I would very much like to see the Vindicator have a better armor save and/or reinforced armor as it used to.

I would like to see Daemon Engines (they will be "section 8" though).

Pretty minor over all.
Author:  Legion 4 [ Thu Jun 19, 2003 4:04 pm ]
Post subject:  What is missing from the E-A rules?
Generally speaking the mechanics are good.

However my comments on FA still stands, a glaring weakness, in my mind... ?:L
Author:  MaksimSmelchak [ Thu Jun 19, 2003 5:20 pm ]
Post subject:  What is missing from the E-A rules?
Neal and Legion-4,

There are still a few minor army list tweaks that I think need to be done. The Ork army is going to be forced to be more of a horde. I would like to see a Kommandoes / Stormboyz formation.


I'd have to say that, overall, I like the mechanics.

I just think that the unit balancing is already in the toilet and is bound to get worse with current trends withstanding.

----------------------------

Jervis's inclination is to keep simplifying towards the Epic40k direction, which is a game I don't care much for. It works great as an overall strategy game, but the lack of flavor / fluff elements really stinks.

I see E-A going the same way for everyone but the Imperials.

Eventually it will be "mighty-awesome-really-cool" Space Marines and IG versus namesless faceless aliens with minor detail differences.

The little extra rules for each race is what give them their unique twist and make them fun in my opinion.

It just makes no sense for me to have "umpty-zillion" different SM and IG units and an Ork list that is "mondo" generic.

-------------------------------------

I really feel that a Kommandoes / Stormboyz formation is a good idea as well.

This lack is really representative of the problem:

- SMs get Terminators, Scouts, several versions of Landspeeders, etc.

- IG gets Stormtroopers, Valkyries, etc.

- Orks get Deth-Koptas, but lack some of their special troop types like ?Kommandoes / Stormboyz in good formations and have the Pulsa Rokkit diminshed to "just another Big Gun."

------------------------------

- Every time something new and innovative rolls along for the Orks, it seems to get removed or dimished.

Witness:

- Stompas
- BFs with variable weapon loads
- Supa-Stompa
- Ork Bommas
- Gunwagons, Battlewagons, Gun Trukks, etc.
- Ork light vehicles constantly mutating
- Ork Drednoughtz and Killa Kanz

I understand Jervis's desire to prevent all Pulsa Rokkit batteries, but isn't there a better way to do it than just destroying the Pulsas altogether?

-------------------------------

RANT MODE OFF!

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
Author:  TuffSkull [ Thu Jun 19, 2003 5:30 pm ]
Post subject:  What is missing from the E-A rules?
I haven't been following the E:A development since I have been ill.

It was looking great then, but have all the Ork units you listed there Maksim been scrapped?

If so, this isn't sounding like a good route to go....
Author:  Jimbo [ Thu Jun 19, 2003 5:51 pm ]
Post subject:  What is missing from the E-A rules?
For me the stuff that is "missing" is stuff like water-based forces, landing craft, monitors, riverine forces, paddle steamers... etc.
Author:  MaksimSmelchak [ Thu Jun 19, 2003 5:53 pm ]
Post subject:  What is missing from the E-A rules?
Tuffskull,

I haven't been following the E:A development since I have been ill.
It was looking great then, but have all the Ork units you listed there Maksim been scrapped?
If so, this isn't sounding like a good route to go....


This is their current status as far as I know:

- Stompas - Stompas have been mutating greatly over the playtest versions. They were orginally very very hard with decent firepower. they have been slowly trading in their firepower for increased CC ability. I don't like the trade one bit. I beleive that they were cheaper at one time too, but haven't checked that out.

- BFs with variable weapon loads - Battle Fortresses lost their variable weapon loads and instead got the Oddboy upgrade = bad deal!

- Supa-Stompa - Still around and unmarginalized as of yet. Although the escalation of Imperial forces makes the unit less viable.  

- Ork Bommas - Totally gone. This was perhaps my favorite new unit too! It worked really well and Iw asted some good SM formation using flights of three Bommas. Rumor has it that there isn't a model yet and that's why it was scrapped.

- Gunwagons, Battlewagons, Gun Trukks, etc. - These are still around and are currently called Gun Wagonz, War Trukks and Battle Wagonz. All of the other thinhs have been combined under these two names.

- Ork light vehicles constantly mutating - Buggies and Skorchas are still around.

- Ork Drednoughtz and Killa Kanz - these keep mutating. They're getting better at CC.

- Ork Warlord - It looks like he was eliminated.

- New limits on Ork formation size x2 or x3 also appear to be in place.

- The old 0-1 limits apply to Oddboyz upgrades and SupaStompas now. This is a real loss because I was getting the hang of using multiple SupaStompa mobz well.

- Orks lost most of their fluff rules.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
Page 1 of 4 All times are UTC [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/