Hi Forum!

I am 50m30n3 3153 using this account.

In open ground is the -1 hit mod for all infantry or just infantry on Overwatch?

Just infantry on overwatch, they're dug-in and hidden more than infantry in other situations.

It represents infantry that are spread out, lying down behind low scrub, in hollows etc. They are not in formal trenches as such but may be in shallow 'scrapes'; are hard to see and harder to target, hence the -1 to shooting and the 5+ cover save (see 1.8.4 terrain effects).

Hi there all - It is me, the owner of this account here rather than 'someone else' who created this thread.

I want to say I read the open ground rule differently.



I interpret this as ALL infantry get the -1 to hit modifier in open ground, and if they are on overwatch they additionally get the 5+ cover save.

There are 2 points why I think this.

1)

I interperite this as the underlined section being in addition to the non-underlined section when on overwatch. IMO The if applies to the and. Otherwise it is a very cumbersome and ambiguous manner of saying [font=]'Infantry on overwatch recieve a -1 to hit and 5+ cover save.'[/font] No need for the and-if combination in the sentance.

Essentially I read it as X is applied AND (y is applied IF condition Z)

Secondly,
This implies that the infantry will retain the -1 to hit modifier when it is no longer on overwatch as it only explicitly states the cover save is lost - not the to hit modifier. SO infantry no longer on overwatch still get the -1 to hit modifier? Honestly does not make sence to me

What makes infantry on overwatch harder to see than infantry just hunkered down but not cocked and loaded so to speak?

We - our beginner gaming group - have agreed to follow what is said here, but I would like to know why I am misunderstanding what I think is an unambiguous statement.

Thanks

AgeingHippy

Infantry on Overwatch are assumed to dig fox holes etc. making them hard to hit (Giving them a cover save & -1 to hit).

Infantry not on overwatch in the open are able to be shot at with no penalties, and no cover save.

The wording is a bit ambiguous, but I assure you that it's intended that infantry don't get a -1 to hit when in the open unless they're on overwatch, or touching an AV or WE.

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Cheers Evil

So to clarify the second section - Do the overwatch infantry keep the -1 to hit after they have shot and are therefore no longer on overwatch?

Infantry that are on overwatch have -1 to hit and a cover save of 5+.

If the infantry use their Overwatch status to shoot, they shoot, and after shooting lose the -1 to hit and their cover save of 5+.

If the infantry use a different activation, such as Sustain Fire, then they also lose their -1 to hit and 5+ cover save.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Sorry to be pedantic about this, please be patient with me. But why does it just say (explicitly) they loose the save and not say they lose the save AND to hit modifier?

Sorry for flogging what is essentially a dead horse, but I am trying to match what everyone is saying with what I am reading.

Not pedantic but perhaps dyslexic?
Infantry get nothing if on open ground unless in Overwatch in which case they are -1 to being hit and get a 5+ cover save. As soon as they shoot through their Overwatch they lose the Overwatch so lose all their protection.

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The problem comes quite simply because:

- The original printing of the rulebook was accidentally missing the rule on gaining -1 to hit and a cover save when on Overwatch.

- The rule was inserted into the online version of the rulebook at a later date in a slightly garbled fashion. The online version of the rulebook also contains some other typos/errors, such as Ork Grotz accidentally having the same stats as Ork Boyz.

However, I assure you that it is the online version of the rulebook that is to blame, and not your own reading of it. :-)

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Thanks

I will let this go now and accept what the intention is.

Thanks for your patience. Just imagine what it must be like to be in my gaming group though, and count your bessings

As others have said, Infantry on OW in open ground gain -1 to hit and +5 cover save (and perhaps the rule would be better written in that fashion). However the following sentence does explain that losing the OW status (when the marker is removed) means they also lose those advantages. Note the formation will lose the OW status if they activate or if they are broken by enemy action.

May I just post a similar question here please..

I got the impression that being in rubble meant that the infantry are partially obscured from incoming fire by large chunks of rubble soaking up the hits, hence the 4+ cover save. Does this mean that there's a -1 to hit modifier for being in the rubble itself?

Also, if I was in some terrain that *does* give me -1 to hit modifier, and if I'm being shot at past the corner of a building which partially obscures my unit in addition to the terrain cover, do I get two -1 modifiers on the to hit roll for the two types of cover?

Yes, they get the -1 to hit for being in cover, as well as the 4+ cover save.

No, the -1 to hit for being in cover does not apply twice. Nor do Marine inf, with a 4+ armor save, also get a 4+ cover save for being in rubble (though they do get -1 to hit).

Hi guys

Not to be pedantic, but it is in my nature. Where does it explicitly state that rubble gives a -1 to hit modifier.

I accept that terrain high enough to partially obscure the model gives a -1 to hit, but what if an area (such as a beer coaster) is defined as rubble and a unit is on that beer mat/rubble. Then there is no terrain high enough to partially obscure the unit.

I think the following 2 sections are relevant...



Would it be the rules stated under 1.8.3 which gives infantry in rubble a -1 to hit?

Taking that further, would any terrain that gives infantry a cover save also by default give them a -1 to hit modifier?

(FWIW - It does make sence that rubble terrain gives a to-hit modifier, but I just want to see the rule that says so.)

Thanks

AH