Tactical Command
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Clarification on Assault close combat and extra MW hits pls.
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=21506		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  AgeingHippy [ Fri Oct 07, 2011 12:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Clarification on Assault close combat and extra MW hits pls.
Hi All

I am rather new to this whole thing, having only played 2 epic games with a buch of chaps who are learning as we go.

I am somewhat unclear regarding the resolution of hits during an assault.

Last night I assaulted an Ork warband with 4 SM terminators. The warband had a WE (I think gunfortress) and the usual host of boyz, nobz and grots.

The 2 SM Terminators moved into base contact with the WE. Ork counter charge then moved 2 infantry into base contact with 2 of my Terminators, wit a bunch of others in firing range.

I rolled the normal attacks (getting 4 hits) and the MW extra attacks (getting 3 hits).

Now how would one go about allocating the hits and saving throws, being aware the MW hits have no saving throws and are sufficient to take down the WE which had a DC3 rating.

What should have been done here? Should I have stated what I am attacking before rolling? Where could the hits have been allocated? Could I only target the 3 units in base contact with my SM since all attacks were CC? Can anyone please clarify for a confused newbie?

Thanks.

PS - I totally owned the orks ;D - it was a 1000 point army on each side. SM had 2 terminators (350 points each by epic-UK rules) and a squad of wirlwinds. Orks had loads of stuff... including the WE and his warboss.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Fri Oct 07, 2011 12:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Clarification on Assault close combat and extra MW hits
As I understand things, allocation is done ala:

- Defender (Ork player) allocates normal hits, starting with units (of his choice) in B2B, and spreading outwards to FF range if there are enough hits.
- Defender makes armour saves against normal hits, and removes casualties.
- Defender allocates Macro Weapon hits, starting with any remaining units in B2B, and spreading outwards to FF range if there are enough hits.
- Defender makes armour saves against MW hits (If possible) and removes units.


If you scored 4 normal and 3 MW hits a legal allocation process could go:

- Defender allocates 3 normal hits to the Gunfortress, and 1 normal hit to an Ork infantry unit.
- Defender passes all his saves (hey, it could happen!!)
- Defender allocates the 3 MW hits to Ork Grot units (that also happen to be in B2B with Terminators, for the purpose of this theoretical process)
- Defender removes 3 Grot units, because they have no save, and in any case were hit by MW hits!
Author:  Mephiston [ Fri Oct 07, 2011 12:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Clarification on Assault close combat and extra MW hits
I agree with what E&C has posted.
Author:  AgeingHippy [ Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Clarification on Assault close combat and extra MW hits
Hi Guys

Thanks for the quick replies.

To clarify my understanding:-
- Normal hits are allocated and resolved first (including removing any killed units)
- MW hits are allocated and resolved next

Normal and MW hits are allocated closest to furthest, even to units that were NOT in base contact ven though all hits were generated by base contact rolls (CC)?

Also, Normal and MW hits are determined BEFORE any units are removed from the table? So if 2 terminators were killed by the ORK normal hits, there would still be 3 MW hits as roled before units are removed?

Also, what about targeting of WE vs Infantry?

Finally, I seem to remember the rules stating that the 'controlling player' chooses the units when there are some which are all the same distance. Since it is an assault who is the controlling player? In your answer above you state the defender can choose the units hit... which of course is very different to the units the attacker would choose (grots v WE) with the MW hits for example.

Thanks guys
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Clarification on Assault close combat and extra MW hits
Quote:
Normal and MW hits are allocated closest to furthest, even to units that were NOT in base contact ven though all hits were generated by base contact rolls (CC)?

Correct.

It's an abstraction that assumes that over the course of an engagement units will move about a bit, maybe surge forwards and apply more hits, etc.


Quote:
Also, Normal and MW hits are determined BEFORE any units are removed from the table? So if 2 terminators were killed by the ORK normal hits, there would still be 3 MW hits as roled before units are removed?

Yes, the Terminators still count as having hit the Orks with their MW attacks, even if they are killed before the MW attacks are allocated to particular Ork units.

Quote:
Also, what about targeting of WE vs Infantry?

Doesn't apply in Engagements.

Quote:
Finally, I seem to remember the rules stating that the 'controlling player' chooses the units when there are some which are all the same distance. Since it is an assault who is the controlling player? In your answer above you state the defender can choose the units hit... which of course is very different to the units the attacker would choose (grots v WE) with the MW hits for example.

In this case, "controlling player" means the one who's making the armour saves.

So there's a Space Marine controlling player, and an Ork controlling player.
Author:  AgeingHippy [ Fri Oct 07, 2011 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Clarification on Assault close combat and extra MW hits
Evil and Chaos wrote:

Quote:
Finally, I seem to remember the rules stating that the 'controlling player' chooses the units when there are some which are all the same distance. Since it is an assault who is the controlling player? In your answer above you state the defender can choose the units hit... which of course is very different to the units the attacker would choose (grots v WE) with the MW hits for example.

In this case, "controlling player" means the one who's making the armour saves.

So there's a Space Marine controlling player, and an Ork controlling player.



Sorry to be questioning you Evil, but I am struggling to get my head around why the defender is the controlling player when the guy with the dice was the attacker (We are talking about allocating the hits).

I would imagine the controlling player to either be the one initiating the assault OR the one throwing the to-hit die. I cannot see how the defender is the controlling player because they are simply reacting to hits by rolling to see if they are taking damage
Author:  zombocom [ Fri Oct 07, 2011 2:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Clarification on Assault close combat and extra MW hits
"controlling player" means the player who's army it is. I.e. if the marine player is taking hits, he's the "controlling player".

The player who controls the models applies the hits.
Author:  AgeingHippy [ Fri Oct 07, 2011 3:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Clarification on Assault close combat and extra MW hits
Thanks for the clarification guys...
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Fri Oct 07, 2011 3:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Clarification on Assault close combat and extra MW hits
No problemo; welcome to The forum!
Author:  Kyrt [ Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Clarification on Assault close combat and extra MW hits
Just to add something which sometimes comes up regarding war engines: they get to choose to split their attacks between CC and FF as they see fit, provided they have appropriate targets. What this really means is that if there are units in base contact with the WE -AND- units not in base contact with the WE but within 15cm, the WE can choose which value to use.

For example, a unit of boyz is in BtB with baneblade 1, and another unit of boyz is in BtB with baneblade 2. Both baneblades can choose to use their FF values. If both boyz were in BtB with the baneblade 1, it would only be able to use its CC value.
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