I'm looking at Epic, but curious what a good size army is point wise.

I know Battlefleet is about 1500pt to 2000pt with the upper high end generally around 3000pt. But where does Epic fall into that.
Also are Eldar and Imperial pretty balanced for opponents?


--Oh, is there an 'official' Chaos list or would it be kosher to just using the marines and pretend they're a renegade faction?

Welcome! I'm not an experienced player (first game tomorrow!) but I've been reading for long enough to figure some things out, but I don't really know about your Eldar vs. Imperial question. Certainly more balanced than Corsair Eldar vs. Imperial Navy in BFG!

The standard game is 3,000 points. Tournaments tend to use that value. 2,000 sounds like the lowest anyone plays, and that's usually for new people (2k pts without aircraft or war engines). Outside of tournaments, 4,000 and 5,000 are not uncommon. Anything larger becomes unwieldy and unbalanced. Anyway, it's more expensive than BFG but

Many (most?) people don't use the official lists. There are different organizations that come up with new ones and try to re-balance the originals: NetEA, EpicUK, and FERC. EpicUK seems to be more conservative in making changes and they have a website. As far as I can tell, NetEA lists are scattered throughout this forum. FERC is in French. They all have Chaos lists!

An online army builder by Adam77: http://traitor-legion.appspot.com/
Epic UK army lists: http://epic-uk.co.uk/armylists.shtml

Also, a lot of people use the following miniatures brands as cheaper proxies, especially for IG:

http://www.exoduswars.com/ <- these guys keep coming out with new stuff. They have an active forum here in TacComs. They're the place to get "Necrons" and they have a popular Valkyrie proxy.
http://www.darkrealmminiatures.co.uk/

Those two are in the UK but ship here. FRP Games is their US distributor but doesn't always have everything (especially Exodus Wars bits). Sometimes it's cheaper, other times it isn't.

https://www.baccus6mm.com/includes/prod ... humans.php <- less sophisticated, but some like their "Sentinels"

And while Forgeworld killed most of their Epic products, those that relate to their Aeronautica Imperialis game (planes, air transports, and anti-air vehicles) are still available. Their aircraft are quite a bit larger than GW's metal ones. They're to scale, while GW's are shrunken, especially the Thunderhawks and Valkyries. You pay more though. On the other hand, IG artillery, Shadowswords 3-pack, and Eldar Wave Serpents are cheaper from Forgeworld! Also, if you email them they might have Warhound titans in stock even though they pretend they don't.

Awesome, thanks for all the responses. I definitely take your (the group) opinions over the 'official' ones and will look at the NetEpicEA stuff.
Do you have have any good suggestions for some balanced 3k armies? Mostly looking for fun and balance against others.

I'm the person that will pick up a couple of X size and stick with those.

i think the metal fliers are better scale for the fliers. the FW ones are nicer models, but titans are too small by a long shot to begin with, put a FW thunderbolt next to one and they look ridiculous. and aircraft, due to their bases, are more in line with titans to begin with. (plus, smaller aircraft makes more visual sense, because when we see aircraft, they're usually further away)

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~Every Tool Is A Weapon, If You Hold It Right~

First off, let me say that it is great that you chose Epic A as a new game to play. Secondly, I am thrilled to see that there are so many people that are in the California area that play Epic.

As for a 'new' person to the hobby, there are two elements I think are good for someone. I think the Imperial Guard are one of the most straight forward forces to play, with a large variety of units, and more traditional things like Titans, artillery and tanks. Once you get a few games down, you can diverge into one of the many races that feel meets your playing style.

The other factor is Economic. Because Epic is almost unsupported by Games Workshop (they keep raising prices in the hope that people will stop playing it) Ebay is the primary method to seek out economical formations. Space Marines are the most prolific of units and the least expensive because they produced massive amounts of plastic minis.

The Space Marine epic forces are tough as nails, small and elite. Just don't expect them to waltz on the battlefield in the face of massed long range artillery fire and survive.

There is a growing gaming group in San Jose (spelling?) that I am in contact with. They play multiple armies, and can discuss advanced tactics with you all you want. PM me and I can forward contact info.

This Febuary 2012 in Los Angeles at OrcCon (president's day weekend), I'll be running a 'scenario' game of Epic Armageddon with a very large table and a fun mission to generate interest in the game again.

If there is enough interest, I'll run a Epic A tournament.

If you or anyone find themselves in the San Diego area, I'm always up for games.

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Dan B.
San Diego Epic Armageddon Coordinator
Author Army Book Epic: Frontiers 1.0

While the Eldar have some special rules and their own way of fighting, they aren't that much harder than IG or Marines to play, if it's Eldar you want to play. IG and Orks are more forgiving perhaps, but considering the cost and time that goes into making an army, start with the armies you want to play with, no matter if they're IG, Marines, Orks, Eldar or Chaos!

(Necrons might be weirder with all their portals, but I can't say anything definitive on that as I've never played them - still painting!)

Economically the Eldar are hard to start (for me at least, I want my Eldar tanks to look like GW Eldar tanks while I'm fine with using other stuff for Imperial or Orc vehicles). They also like having 8 of each aspect warrior type, which means 4 warhost boxes. GW plastic infantry are decently priced, but most other armies get away with one or two boxes.

Exactly, considering the cost of other games, it doesn't seem so bad.

Except you want tanks for an Eldar army (wave serpents and firestorms especially, and for the last ones you need falcons) and then the costs starts climbing.

I'll admit that it's probably because I wouldn't want to proxy eldar tanks but don't mind proxying IG or Orks (or Marines for that matter, gogo M113). GW charges roughly twice the amount per tank ($6) that EW does ($3). Hell, wave serpents are $10 each...

If you don't mind the old-school Falcons (the one that looks like delta wings with a gun), then you can get a lot of tanks really cheap on ebay.

With a little plasticard, rods and glue, I'm sure they could be made into good counts-as Wave Serpents and Firestorms too.

Eldar warhosts (without Aspects) goes cheap too. I use those, and just paint them different colors if I want aspects instead of guardians. Not as pretty, granted, but it is recognizable and works well enough on the tabletop.