Why use Death Korps of Krieg instead of Steel Legion?

As a brand new Epic player looking for new and exciting challenges on a smaller scale, I got the new Epic Siege book (a very impressive piece of work) and am considering starting an Imperial Guard army.

The first question that I have is why use the new Krieg instead of the Steel Legion? ‘Fluff’ is not a factor as I intend to create a custom background and am therefore considering the codices to be in competition with each other. Since I have not yet bought any models but would like to start a Guard force, I would like to get some input from people who have the new codex in comparing them to Steel Legion.

First note though that it is a real credit to the team who made the Krieg list that they did not load them up with unbalancing and overpowered options as can be tempting. Bit of a pity though, lol

Please note that everything I discuss below is based on the recently released book, not on the pdf DEATH KORPS OF KRIEG SIEGE REGIMENT
IMPERIAL GUARD ARMY LIST Version: v1.13, which has some different prices and unit differences such as Manticores available under Heavy Support Batteries.
Any mention of statlines are in the order of Armour, CC and FF

INFANTRY
Krieg Infantry have no armour (Edit: Nor do Steel Legion). Unlike Steel Legion they have no ACs in their infantry apart from 1 stubber for commanders, meaning they have only a single shot from the formation unless they buy fire support as an upgrade (even then, much less ranged firepower than Steel Legion troops).
For their core companies they must buy 19+1 Supreme for 400 or 19+1 Commander for 300. Expect to see a lot of infantry because the only other core formation is Rough Riders who don’t get scout for 250pts – there are no really cheap core formations.
No Ogryn
No stormtroopers, although they have Grenadiers with the same 5 5 4 statline, so basically ST with an ignore cover weapon and without the AT5 Plasmagun.
Krieg have Engineers, with a 5 4 5 statline that can be delivered by Breaching Drill- a very interesting option for taking distant objectives.

SCOUTS
Krieg do not have sentinels or snipers, but do have Grenadiers (5+ 5+ 4+) available as scouts
They do have scout Rough Riders as a support formation, but note the core Rough Riders lose scout. They have a better stat line 5 4 6 giving them one extra point of armour.

TANKS
Very Similar to Steel

HEAVY TANKS
Kreig has some new options Steel don’t get; the Macharius Heavy Tanks for 125pts or 350 for 3 including a command tank (which is a better deal, the command tank is pretty good). These are priced right and fill the gap between the standard and super heavy tanks nicely, although I’m not sure 4 of these with total 8 Damage Capacity for 475 is as good as 3 SHTs for 500 with 9 Damage Capacity.
In other words, some Krieg players may still use SHTs.

SUPER HEAVY TANKS
Very similar to Steel

TRANSPORT
No valkyries
No chimeras, but do get Centaurs (which are 6 6 6 AP6+, so not nearly as good as 5 6 5 AP5+ and AP5+/AT6+ Chimeras)
Krieg get Gorgons, a super heavy DC3 transport. It looks good, and is a walker with reinforced armour, with the downside of providing less cover to infantry and requiring them to bunch up around it.

SKIMMERS
None

ARTILLERY
No Manticores. I consider these to be an extremely important part of the Guard armoury, so that’s a problem. The closest thing Krieg has is a Bombard with the same cost as Manticores, but while this has Ignore Cover, it loses Disrupt and is range 45 instead of 150. It is also slow firing (which will really cost a model that won’t be in range on turn one) and simply can’t fill the same role.
The best long ranged artillery piece is the Earthshaker, essentially a light vehicle (LV) 120 range immobile Basilisk.
The best medium range artillery is probably the Medusa siege gun, with a terrific 1 BP Ignore cover, Indirect, Disrupt shot. Keep in mind, it’s relatively short range of 60cm is exacerbated by the fact it is a light vehicle platform and at 275pts its premium priced.
Krieg do have a large amount of short to medium range artillery and mortars.

TITANS
Very similar to Steel.

AIRFORCE
Both have Thunderbolts
Krieg can take Heavy Marauders as pairs of normal Marauders. These are 150 for 1 instead of 250 for 2, but definitely better.

ANTI AIR
Krieg AA is immobile (or tow-able). They have Hydra platforms (slightly cheaper, although LV) and Heavy Anti-Air platforms (LV, cheaper than Steel Hydras, 60cm range). This AA has to be taken as a formation rather than scattered in larger formations, making them easier to target by enemies with massed airforces, and easier to break. Taking AA also burns a support slot.

ANTI-TITAN
In place of the Death Strike launcher, Krieg get the Death Strike Silo. This is much harder to kill, being an immobile DC3 warmachine. It only fires one missle and is slow firing, so is probably not worth it’s premium price of 250. In a four turn game it will fire two missiles; I’d generally rather fire 2 missiles in turn one.

TRENCHES
Krieg have 80cm deployable trenches that give cover saves (4+) with 4 bunkers (+3 to infantry) for 100pts. Not an activation, but could make a good defence line.


In the balance, I'd consider Steel the stronger list with a greater ability to reach out and touch anything anywhere and more mobility, scouts and options, with Krieg better at static defence, having an advantage at last minute Blitz objective grabbing via tunnelers and generally being a tougher nut to crack for an attacker. In a head to head, I'd expect Steel Legion to win the moment the player realises they out range their opponent and can force them to leave their lovely defensive perimetre or die inside it, but it would probably be a close thing between good generals.


What do people who actually know the game and the armies think?

G'day Matt and welcome to Tactical Command!

_________________
Just call me Steve.

NetEA Rules Chair
NetEA FAQ

Want to play Iron Warriors in Epic Armageddon? Click HERE
Some of my Armies.
My Hobby site.

The Steel Legion represents a particular kind of mechanised warfare. It is at its best when used with lots of mobile elements like troops in Chimeras, Stormtroopers in Valkyries, tank companies, etc.

The Death Korps on the other hand, represents a kind of offensive, "infantry wave" warfare. Backed up with cheap and plentiful artillery, its core formations are very large (And thus can withstand a great degree of attrition before they become combat ineffective). Their special combat training also grants them a CC rating of 5+, which can often be useful (When facing other Guard armies, for example).

The Death Korps also have some tools to use to help push up the board despite their infantry-centric focus.
- Gorgon transports give a small speed boost to the army, and a significant combat boost.
- Krieg Engineers can tunnel up in unexpected areas.
- Core Rough Rider formations are fairly cheap, and cannot lose their speed like Steel Legion mechanised companies that lose their Chimera transports.
- Tank platoons (Especially when composed of Thunderer tanks) are cheap and mobile.
- Trenchworks can be placed fairly far forwards, meaning that infantry that starts the game garrisoned in the trenches can start in heavy cover half way up the table if you like.





Grenediers are lovely due to their excellent firefight stat plus their specialised infantry-killing flamers.
Given Centaur transports they are a fast shooting/supporting formation, and given a Gorgon they become a mobile assault formation.


Note that Grenediers are also scouts.



Centaurs aren't as good as Chimeras, but they are faster and a lot cheaper.


Gorgons are super, and let the infantry go from being a defensive formation to being an attacking Engaging formation.


Note that you can garrison all of the Krieg artillery except Bombards.
That means they can start the game on overwatch, or start the game half way up the table meaning their shorter range is irrelevant.



Note that Krieg Marauders are better than the Steel Legion Marauders.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Hello Matt and welcome aboard!

===

As some others have pointed out, I think you're missing a few of the Krieg strengths.

Upgrades - One quick clarification... I don't know if you intended the "macharius + macharius upgrade" as literal or theoretical, but you can't upgrade the support formations, only the core companies.

Infantry - The "light support" infantry formations are very good.

Scouts - You don't absolutely need scouts. 20 infantry can screen a lot of territory and generally do most things you want scouts to do, even without the Scout ability.

Tanks and SHTs - More options is always good.

Arty - The garrison-for-range-compensation E&C described also applies to the fire support infantry.

AA - Garrison applies to the AA as well. They can go far enough forward that their direct fire functions as an area denial element. For example, 3 Hydras in gun emplacements on OW is a tough thing to approach, and air assaulting into their area of control is near suicide (6 AA hits, followed by 6 OW shots, all before the assault happens).

Silos - These are WAY tougher than Deathstrikes. They are much more difficult to destroy or suppress before they fire. Put a Commissar in them and they are 4+RA, DC3, Fearless. They are good, to the point they were a balance concern at just 250 points.

I intend to use Kreig the next time I get to play with the big kids, mainly because its nothing like my usual Tank onslaught but still allows me to take Tank Platoons.

I never use scouts anyway so the lack of Sentinels doesn't bother me, but I would say the deathstrike silo is not something I would use. Its interesting in how it could be used but given the need for the points to be spent on artillery to support all that infantry I can't justify the fact that it costs more and can't be used to be irritating and place Blast Markers once its missiles are gone. It also doesn't force the opponent to alpha strike it the way regular deathstrikes do.

Really? Have ever considered sticking it directly in front of your Blitz? Talk about gaining lots of attention, that'll do it.

@Neal: Whoa! Thanx for the DS+Commissar tip, that is a beaut and consider the idea "borrowed".

As far as Krieg vs. SL goes, they are very different styles of play. I do consider Krieg more challenging for me to play since I am more of a Elysian/Drop Space Marine player. Still, there is something very rewarding about blowing your opponent all over the board, then attaching bayonets and giving them a good stick. Jolly good fun, that is.

From a modeling perspective, I think the Krieg are much more interesting compared to basic SL.

Either way, I don't think you'll lose which ever way you go, but if I was going to recommend a list, I'd go with the Krieg.

_________________
Remember Taros? We do.

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment