When you have regular hits and MW hits to allocate, Do you allocate your regular hits, makes saves, remove dead units. Then, allocate MW hits, makes saves if appicable, and remove dead units. That is how the rules read.

What made us wonder though is that after fully resolving your regular hits and you go to allocate your MW hits are units that survived the round of regualr hits eligible to recieve the MW hits or do they have to be allocated to untis that have not yet had any hits allocated to them? In other words, are units already allocated regualr hits eligible to recieve MW hits if other valid targets are available. Is the MW hit allocation step an entirely new hit allocation step, a clean slate?

Thank you in advance,

SgtBalicki

Yes.


Allocate to the units that already passed armour saves. Life's harsh for the guys at the front.


Yeppers.

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One that came up in a recent game.

Chaos Decimator fires on an Ork Kult of Speed.

Decimator has Reapers (4xAP3+/AT5+), and a Decimator Cannon (3BP MW).

In what order do you lay the template and/or resolve the Reaper shots?

I would have assumed that you lay the template to determine number of potential hits, resolved the Reapers, then rolled MW against the potential hits, but the recent discussion on Barrages throws my initial impression out the window.

Morgan Vening

-Roll AP attacks.
-Allocate AP attacks.
-Place Template and Roll MW Template attacks, mark which units have been hit by the barrage. (This can have the effect of double-tapping units with a normal hit and a MW hit)
-Make Saves for normal hits, Remove casualties.
-Make Saves (If any) for MW hits, Remove casualties.

Some MW hits may be "lost" as the enemy unit may have already died from taking a normal hit. Similar to losing MW hits if all valid targets in range are killed by conventional shots in normal direct fire shooting.

That's how I'd play it anyway.

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Agreed E&C - you go through all the shooting mechanics to generate the various types of hits, which are pooled together**. The hits are allocated and resolved in separate stages, so potentially MW hits can be allocated to enemy units that have survived normal hits.

** There are some subtlties in this, especially when considering barrages and different target types etc. but in principle normal hits are allocated 'front-to-back' to eligible targets and resolved, then MW hits, and finally TK hits.

SgtBalicki: E&C's first answer is correct. You start over "fresh" with the MW hit allocation. In addition to the "it's harsh for the guys in front" aspect, note that this does increase the chance of being able to place a MW hit on a high-armor target. Chances are better that they would save on the normal hits, so they'd still be around for the MW allocation. This gives something of an effect of heavy weapons trying to hit priority targets, but it's not failsafe (fog of war and all that).


I think all the "to hit" rolls are done before allocation. The barrage hits should be rolled first, imho, even though they are a combined hit/allocation. Since we clarified the barrage allocation, it seems pretty clear that it's the barrage-specific allocation that is out of order, not the barrage to-hit.

This has several advantages:

If you're using the speed-rolling technique, the "front to back" would always double-tap to the maximum (rendering it worthless, as the attacker would always demand strict rule process in any combined attack). If you allocate after to-hit, then both speed-rolling barrage and normal allocation would work exactly like normal.

It sticks with the philosophy of "spread out the hits for allocation" from the LV allocation FAQ.

Finally, and most importantly, allocating normal hits after the barrage allocation would work the same whether or not the barrage was MW or normal. KISS.

So, I would modify that to:

To hit:
-Place Template and roll MW Template attacks, mark which units have been hit by the barrage. (All to-hit rolls first as normal, barrage allocation out of order.)
-Roll non-barrage attacks.

[Note, the order of to-hit rolls doesn't really matter. No casualties should be removed before all rolls are completed, so the barrage should get the same attacks either way. However, I'd place the barrages first, simply to avoid confusion.]

Normal allocation (Back to normal order.):
-Allocate AP attacks. Skip units with hits allocated (by the barrage) as normal.
-Make Saves for normal hits, Remove casualties.

MW allocation:
-Allocate any remaining MW hits (e.g. Gargant with MW barrage and a TK Gaze hit) as normal.
-Make Saves (if any) for MW hits, Remove casualties.

So as I'm always not clear on this
Say I'm firing my Gargant at a tactical formation.
I put down the template and roll to hit each unit under it. Now I roll for each target type (say 4 marines, two rhinos and one chaplain) and assign hits, say I hit one regular marine and the chaplain. Then I get 5 AP hits with normal fire. Would I first allocate AP hits to everything not hit by the MW barrage then an additional one onto a unit hit by the MW barrage? And then after those AP hits resolved allocate any MW and TK hits before rolling to see what happens to the units already hit by the MW?

Ignore the MW allocation as you don't allocate them until later. So if the units hit by the barrage are killed by the normal shooting you've lost the MW hits is my take.

So it would be if a formation of 4 infantry was hit by a MW barrage and normal fire, when do I allocate hits? I first see what survives the normal fire before allocating?

That being the same way as how I outlined it above, right?

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E&C yes, but TRC doesn't see it that way!

Only if your barrage was also hitting the front of the formation.

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No its not that Mephiston, I was actually seeing it worse than you as it were.

You seem to be saying work out and allocate hits from the MW barrage after normal shooting? Which maximises their damage.

I thought from the example given you allocate the barrage hits first to get them out of the way then allocate the normal hits. This would lead to some units dying before the MW hit takes effect.

But I think you are saying do the normal fire then and allocate hits to survivors under the template?

No, as we now know there is no allocation to units under templates as you roll to hit each specific unit.

So in this case I'd follow E&C's timetable. If a unit that was 'hit' by the barrage gets killed by an allocated non MW shot then that's just bad luck.

OTOH if it's a normal barrage and AP shooting, I would allocate the AP attacks around the barrage hits, and so until I reached the rear of the formation there would be no double-hits. Because AP/AT are supposed to be assigned at the same time.

Same thing if there was MW shooting and MW barrage, no double-hits until you reach the back of the formation and cycle forwards.

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