Tactical Command
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rules question TK/targetting
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=16430		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  vytzka [ Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:11 am ]
Post subject:  rules question TK/targetting
Imagine the following situation - two Baal Predators out in the open, and six Assault marine units cuddling them to get some cheap cover (not that it will help them with what is going to happen). The most forward unit is a base of Assault marines which is right about to become relevant.

An Eldar Warlock titan targets them with a pulsar.

Now, normally he would be able to choose to target either the whole formation or only units out of cover. The latter would actually be a lot more convenient for the attacker as that would allow him to strip the Assault marines of vehicle cover for subsequent massacre by Falcons/Firestorms - otherwise the first casualty is going on the Assault marines (to great sadness of the vehicle crews and other Assault marines in formation I am sure).

However! Pulsar is a Titan Killer weapon and doesn't particularly care for cover or absence thereof. Would it be allowed to elect to shoot at targets out of cover?
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:38 am ]
Post subject:  rules question TK/targetting
You can state to shoot the stuff in or out of cover, tis up to you. Shoot the stuff in cover and its minus 1 to hit. In fact even if your weapon is ignore cover I think you can call this.

Anyway if you shoot stuff out of cover you hit the 2 assault marines and the 2 baals. If you hit the stuff in cover you can hit the 2 baals and all 6 marines.
Author:  Mephiston [ Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:43 am ]
Post subject:  rules question TK/targetting
Even TK weapons suffer -1 to hit when the target is in cover its just that infantry loose the cover save.

Also being a little pedantic but only 4 marines can claim cover as AV's can only give 2 units cover and WE DCx2 units.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:47 am ]
Post subject:  rules question TK/targetting
Also being a little pedantic but only 4 marines can claim cover as AV's can only give 2 units cover and WE DCx2 units.

That I believe is by convention (and it is a convention I use too) rather than an actual rule.

Just going by the rules you can have 10 infantry claiming cover from 1 Rhino, if you so desire.
Author:  vytzka [ Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:57 am ]
Post subject:  rules question TK/targetting
Well it's pretty easy to put three stands of infantry around one vehicle, though more is pushing it. Still, it sounds like a reasonable convention.

And getting -1 to hit from cover on TK weapons definitely sounds like good news to me.
Author:  nealhunt [ Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:35 pm ]
Post subject:  rules question TK/targetting
E&C is correct.  Per the rules, cover from AVs and WEs is only restricted by the ability of models to physically touch.  The 2 per unit/DC is just a very common house rule.
Author:  Ginger [ Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:22 pm ]
Post subject:  rules question TK/targetting
If you check the FAQ, you will find that the player chooses to fire at targets in cover or in the open for each Class of weapon. So where you have a formation containing lots of AP weapons, AT weapons, MW weapons and TK weapons, you can choose to fire each group of weapons separately at the various units in the target formation.

Let's assume that the Warlock titan, armed with a Pulsar lazer and Power fist, is firing on a Marine tactical formation with some infantry in cover behind vehicles, while others are left in the open. The titan could choose to fire the Missile launchers at the vehicles (AT), the Powerfist at infantry in the open (AP) and the Pulsar at the infantry in cover (MW).
(Note he cannot fire the fist and the missiles at separate infantry targets because both weapons would be using AP)
Author:  BlackLegion [ Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:32 am ]
Post subject:  rules question TK/targetting
I thought you can choose for each individual weapon/shot in a formation if it wants to fire at cover or out of cover targets?
So say a Devastator Detachment (8 Missile Launchers)chooses to fire 4 of its AP shots at infantry in the open and 4 AP shots at infantry in cover.
Author:  Ginger [ Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:09 am ]
Post subject:  rules question TK/targetting
You are correct that firing is considered on a weapon basis, but for example suppression is done by units, and targeting is done as a formation. Here is the relevant FAQ from the 2008 amendments
Q: When shooting at a formation where some units are in cover and others are not you can elect whether to shoot at targets in cover (in which case you take the -1 penalty) or not
(in which case you don't). What is the scope of this decision?
• The entire shooting formation?
• Each shooting weapon type?
• Each shooting unit?
• By damage type (AT vs. AP)?
• Each shooting weapon?
• Unspecified, work it out with your opponent?
For example, if someone shoots at my tactical formation, which has three exposed rhinos and six marines in cover, does the attacker have to take the -1 to hit the rhinos (which is AT fire), if he wants the tactical marines to be potential targets for his AP fire?
A: The choice to shoot at in-cover or outof-cover targets must be done by the entire formation. It can only be separated by type of weapon fire. If you had AT, AP, and MW fire in one salvo, you could fire AT at out-of-cover, AP at in-cover and MW at in-cover. Or any other arrangement, as long as all of each fire type (AP, AT, MW) is directed solely at one target type (in-cover or out-of-cover). You cannot split up  targetting of a single type of fire. If an IG infantry company had 2 units out of cover and 10 units in cover and you were firing with, say, 8 AP shots, you could not target 4 AP at out-of-cover and 4 at in-cover. All the AP shots would have to be directed at a single target type.
In you example, if you are only shooting at infantry with infantry weapons, the entire formation must choose to shoot at units in, or out of cover. However, if shooting at a mixed target of infantry and vehicles, then each weapon can choose to be AP or AT so here it can be 4x AP shots and 4x AT shots.
Author:  vytzka [ Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:36 am ]
Post subject:  rules question TK/targetting
You don't seem to be able to split TK fire from normal MW though (or AT if there are any AT TK weapons in the game).
Author:  mnb [ Fri Aug 14, 2009 3:52 pm ]
Post subject:  rules question TK/targetting
i hope this isn't too far off topic but this is a minor thing that has bothered me for a while.
in the above scenario if the titan was closest to the infantry w/ the rhinos directly behind them, how is the infantry getting a cover save? and is it just vehicles or could the infantry be standing next to a building and get the same bonus?
Author:  Dwarf Supreme [ Fri Aug 14, 2009 3:55 pm ]
Post subject:  rules question TK/targetting
Infantry get the cover "to hit" modifier if they are touching a vehicle. They don't get a cover save, though.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Fri Aug 14, 2009 3:58 pm ]
Post subject:  rules question TK/targetting
Quote: (Dwarf Supreme @ 14 Aug. 2009, 15:55 )

Infantry get the cover "to hit" modifier if they are touching a vehicle. They don't get a cover save, though.

We tend to say the same for 'touching cover' too, in that your unit doesn't get a cover save unless it is inside a building or whatever, but touching the building grants -1 to-hit.
Author:  mnb [ Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:09 pm ]
Post subject:  rules question TK/targetting
that's what i meant, the -1 modifier. but what is this supposed to represent? standing against the side of a vehicle makes you harder to hit?
Author:  Moscovian [ Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:26 pm ]
Post subject:  rules question TK/targetting
It represents people hiding against the vehicle.  The position of the troops on the stand isn't a literal representation as to their actual locaion - think of it more abstractly that they are finding some cover in the 6" ditch or the small bush or the water cannisters strapped to the side of the vehicle, none of which are represented.
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