Tactical Command
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Rule question - War engines and counter-charge
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=16277		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Flogus [ Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Rule question - War engines and counter-charge
If a war engine is engage in base-to-base by less units than twice its DC, can it make a counter-charge move ?

So if a Reaver with FF and CC weapons (with front fire arcs) is engaged in its back by 4 units, can it make a counter-charge move to face its ennemies (and use its extra attacks) ?
Author:  nealhunt [ Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Rule question - War engines and counter-charge
Also, the normal "must countercharge towards the nearest enemy unit" rule remains in effect.
Author:  Ginger [ Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Rule question - War engines and counter-charge
And a final note, titans and WE get an all-round assault, so facing does not normally matter. The one exception to this is the Feral Warhound of the Chaos lists, which does get extra attacks if there are units in it's front arc.
Author:  Flogus [ Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Rule question - War engines and counter-charge
Quote: (Ginger @ 30 Jul. 2009, 15:25 )

And a final note, titans and WE get an all-round assault, so facing does not normally matter. The one exception to this is the Feral Warhound of the Chaos lists, which does get extra attacks if there are units in it's front arc.

The basic attacks of titans are 360°, yes, but the extra attacks from FF and CC weapons are limited by the arm and carapace arc, aren't they ?
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Rule question - War engines and counter-charge
Flogus is technically correct, the best kind of correct.
Author:  yme-loc [ Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Rule question - War engines and counter-charge
Just for my own curiosity could someone post the rule that allows the war engine to do this, I know its how most people play but as far as I can see war engines have no exemption from the rule that you can only make a counter charge if you are not in base contact.

So the fact they can barge in a counter charge has no effect as you cant make the counter charge in the first place even if contacted by a single unit?
Author:  Dwarf Supreme [ Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Rule question - War engines and counter-charge
Quote: (Flogus @ 30 Jul. 2009, 12:44 )

Quote: (Ginger @ 30 Jul. 2009, 15:25 )

And a final note, titans and WE get an all-round assault, so facing does not normally matter. The one exception to this is the Feral Warhound of the Chaos lists, which does get extra attacks if there are units in it's front arc.

The basic attacks of titans are 360°, yes, but the extra attacks from FF and CC weapons are limited by the arm and carapace arc, aren't they ?

That would be news to me. I've never played that extra attacks are limited to the weapon's fire arc.
Author:  Flogus [ Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Rule question - War engines and counter-charge
I re-read the rule.
And the rule about fire arcs tells only about the shooting ("may fire").

The gargant profiles also is interesting to read carefully : the "Fixed Fire Arc" of Lifta-Droppa or Mega-Choppa is written only on the line with the shooty mod, not on the assaulty mod.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Rule question - War engines and counter-charge
If weapon arcs for close combat weapons don't matter, then the inclusion of a weapon arc on the Feral class Warhound's Firefight-only attack makes no sense at all.

Ergo arcs are used in Engagement situations, and that must also include CC weapons.
Author:  Dwarf Supreme [ Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Rule question - War engines and counter-charge
Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ 30 Jul. 2009, 14:37 )

If weapon arcs for close combat weapons don't matter, then the inclusion of a weapon arc on the Feral class Warhound's Firefight-only attack makes no sense at all.

Ergo arcs are used in Engagement situations, and that must also include CC weapons.

It makes perfect sense to me. The normal rule is that fire arcs don't matter in CC and FF, except for the Feral which has a restriction as noted in its stats.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Rule question - War engines and counter-charge
Well then, Titans also have restrictions noted in their stats: Arm weapons are Forward Arc and carapace weapons are Fixed Forward Arc.

So if you put a CCW on an arm slot, it picks up the 'forward arc' restriction.

That's a fact, and not even something I can change without an awkward Special Rule.


Besides, I kinda like the idea of sneaking up on a Titan, locking it in B2B with enough units so that it can't turn around and hit you with its big CC weapons...
Author:  Dwarf Supreme [ Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Rule question - War engines and counter-charge
Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ 30 Jul. 2009, 15:26 )

Besides, I kinda like the idea of sneaking up on a Titan, locking it in B2B with enough units so that it can't turn around and hit you with its big CC weapons...

I personally think that's silly, but then again for a long time I've been an advocate for all arm weapons (or at least on Warlords and Reavers)having a fire arc of 270 degrees. It doesn't make sense to me that a machine as sophisticated as a Titan wouldn't be designed to fire behind itself.
Author:  Chroma [ Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Rule question - War engines and counter-charge
Quote: (Dwarf Supreme @ 30 Jul. 2009, 20:37 )

It doesn't make sense to me that a machine as sophisticated as a Titan wouldn't be designed to fire behind itself.

In the minds on the Adeptus Mechanicus nothing could ever survive the implacable of the Titan Legion long enough for that to ever come up in design meetings...  :vD
Author:  mattthemuppet [ Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Rule question - War engines and counter-charge
Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ 30 Jul. 2009, 15:26 )

That's a fact, and not even something I can change without an awkward Special Rule.

but isn't this a problem solely because of a special rule/ restriction with the Feral?

Can't think of any titan rulesheet where CC or FF are limited in arc otherwise, which would make this point moot.
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