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Batt Rep: Demiurg - IG 3000pt

 Post subject: Batt Rep: Demiurg - IG 3000pt
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2006 2:40 pm 
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My opponent (Rich) and I generally play IG and Orks respectivily (OW5 players will have seen my boyz there), however I've recently begun to get interested in the newer lists, so here is my (hopefully) helpful contribution.

My first time using this list (perhaps it shows).

Rules
Core
Altered 3BP stats
Altered Engage rules (ie. attacks may stall if attacker wiped out, and CC MW are rolled at the same time - defender allocated hits)
Fighters - CAP carries over, +1 to intercept
TK target WE if present
ie. all of EXPERIMENTALGAMERULESv2.pdf except for: 2.2.6, all skimmer stuff, garrisons

Demiurg List (including errata etc in that thread)


IG
HQ company + Hydra @ 550  (inc. commissar)
Inf company + Hydra + firesupport @ 400  (inc. commissar)
Inf Company + Hydra + firesupport @ 400  (inc. commissar)
Artillery Batt (basilisk) @ 250
Artillery Batt (basilisk) @ 250
Rough Riders @ 150  (inc. commissar)
Rough Riders @ 150
Stormtroopers inc valkryes @ 350  (inc. commissar)
Deathstrikes @ 200
Thunderbolts @ 150
Thunderbolts @ 150

Demiurg
FMC + Merchant Prince + ASG local + 6 rhino @ 560
IBL + Trade Factor + ASG local + 7 rhino @ 545
MSJ + Legate MArshall @ 250
MSJ + Trade Factor + MSJ local (as trikes) @ 325
Thunderfire batt. @ 150
Automon + 5 termite @ 250
Goliath batt. @ 400
Cyclops @ 500

We unfortunately lack nice gaming tables, but beware the pencil sharpeners of doom. Also, people may recognise minis here and there - ebay

Setup
Quick shot of table setup, using the imagination for the hills. We placed objectives pretty much where you'd expect. My Blitz on the far right corner, IG in the middle and the rest scattered around the centre region.

Here I took my first gamble, I decided to bring my automons up 10cm from Rich's blitz, on turn 3. the IG garrisoned both inf comps in the centre of the table, . Yes, those are pencil sharpeners.

For army placement, I went for a more assult bias to my left flank, Rich just spread over his base line, and . That mini treasure chest is in fact a deathstrike proxy, honest.

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http://epica.2-72.co.uk


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 Post subject: Batt Rep: Demiurg - IG 3000pt
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2006 2:42 pm 
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Turn 1
Well, it was a tense start: Rich's deathstrikes, my goliath battery - +1 to me and a success.

Sustain fired the 12BP disrupt goliaths, and well placing 3 BMs with 2 additional templates was fun, The cycplos retained to hit the HQ causing minor damage.

Rich then needed his re-roll to get his unbroken basilisks to fire supressing one of my thunderfires.

I doubled the MP (merhcant prince) into the woods on the far left and hit the Inf Comp in the open, in responce Rich ground attacked with one set of thunderbolts. . Feeling no immediate threat I then attempted to launch my tunnellers - they required a pay rise from to get going; the second lot of thunderbolts seemed equally unresponsive and failed to appear.

The IBL then doubled to attack the other Inf Comp in the centre of the table, causing no damage. The stormtroopers failed to pass their double, and instead made a single move .

I moved the MSJ forward to support the MP on the left and the cyclops on the right, in between the centre inf comp open fire on the IBL.

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http://epica.2-72.co.uk


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 Post subject: Batt Rep: Demiurg - IG 3000pt
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2006 2:43 pm 
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It was now that a grea blunder on my part was spotted by Rich - and fully punished. His rough riders could engage the IBL in firefight. ,  2 made it within 15cm, I had to kill them, replying with two 5+ and two 6+ - obviously it didn't happen allowing the Inf Comp to lend supporting fire. Alas, it got worse - in the roll of there was a draw. My counter charge pulled the Inf into the engage, I checked my balance sheets, and this was looking bad. . My middle disappeared .

Rich had three more activations ad proceeded to setup for turn 2.

All the Demiurg rallied, the broken basilisk battery crews failed to come out from hiding behind the giant explosive shells, everything else passed.

Turn 2
IG win the strategy roll, on a draw - damn.

Rich laughs as he rolls to launch his remaingin deathstrike - quickly drowned out as I see the 1 staring back at him. Re-roll dispenced with, one of my goliaths disappears; I swear I parked it in carpark C level 2.

Trapped between two woods, a helpless inf company is pounced not only by the MP, but aided by the MSJ (the one with trikes) that moved close enought to enable the commander ability. I was confident after I'd made my charge moves (the ASG infiltrate ability was very handy here) .

To cut along story short - I lost by 1. After some terrible saving throws, even worse attack rolls I deserved to lose. Running away. This left me with nothing on the lefthand 2/3 rds of the table. In a desparate rage I retained with the cyclops and caught the stormtroopers still loaded up. Needing threes after doubling I only managed to take out 1 valkrye, not even enough to break the formation.

Rich's good basilik crew hit the thunderfires, killing one, leaving me without any air cover. With only a few formations left, the turn was over failr quickly. Rich's thunderbolts both arrived - killing the remainging thunderfire and bring the last goliath down to 1 DC. the small MSJ engaged the stormtroopers and won - somehow, breaking in the process though; in a well placed clipping engage. The stormtroopers retreated towards my blitz, and my final offensive action of the turn was getting the stormtroopers in a crossfire with my cradles and the cyclops - failing to hit though.

All the Demiurg (that survives) rallies except the small MSJ, the basilisks fail again - rich thinks he forgot the pack the ammunition.

Turn 3
The tunnellers arrive, yeah... the breaching charges break the single deathsrtike, cause a kill (due to being broken and BM) on the basilisk driving both of them off.

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http://epica.2-72.co.uk


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 Post subject: Batt Rep: Demiurg - IG 3000pt
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2006 2:44 pm 
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I win the strategy roll, and ponder my only option. The goliath gets off it's second (and I fear final) shot of the game against the HQ, the dsrupt ability causing them to break. I retain with the cyclops and use it's missles to pummel the IG BtS, killing the supreme commander - but not enough.

Rich marches his rought riders to contest the objective my cyclops is sitting on and retains with the basilisks killing a cradle.  . In response they sustain fire the stormtroopers - well they would have if they hadn't failed their roll and the re-roll.

Thunderbolts break the cradles, my left flank MSJ double to contest the IG objective, .

There seems little hope for the demiurg, the MP attempts to marshall but fails and as a result breaks. The stormtroopers attempt to engage the cradles but fail - I feel relief until rich's crafty measuring spots that he can capture the objective in a single move, .

My automons, newly arrived, fail their roll to double and capture the unguarded IG objective nearest the blitz. A single move is not enough.

As a final activation of the game, the Inf Comp responsible for massacring the IBL marches back home and contests the blitz from the termites.

The remaining IG formations clean up a few lose ends, ie. the remainging rough riders moved in to recapture the demiurg objective in the centre of the table (left vacant by the inf comp that just contested the IG blitz). The game is called,

Results
IG 2 (blitz, take and hold)
Demiurg 0

Rich's thoughts on the game: he won, he's happy. He was definitely surprised when I starting unpacking - he was expecting me to bring LatD or SM. I hadn't told him I'd just bought some squats off ebay - I'm evil like that.

My thoughts: some damn unlucky outcomes, my left flank assult with MP, and combining with the beefed up MSJ was really that 1 in every million/10/5/2 (delete as applicable) screw ups in a game. Losing the IBL so spectacularly was funny at the time, painful later on - proves the power of clipping assults.

List Thoughts

Just a selection of points we came up with:
1) 2x.. left/right - does that mean it has 4 shots (2 left 2 right) or 2 shots which can be directed either way [from Overlord Airship, and Leviathan]

2) Land trains as BtS - what happens if the engine gets destroyed, do the remaining cars still count as Bts or is the 2nd highest now the BtS

3) Tunnellers are nail biting for both sides, I hid behind my rule book as Rich made his tidy up activations at the end of turn 2.

4) Air bias: this is being discussed else where, but the lack of AA in the list makes me feel that to ever be taken to a tournament you'll need at least 3 Overlords - the thunderfire batteries are far too weak in our opinion (especially given the sort of armies Rich and I played at OpenWar 5 not too long ago). This means you'll never be able to take any of the cool toys to tournaments (assuming 3k pts being the norm).

5) the cyclops stats need work - the meltas (as mentioned before) are never worth using. Perhaps they could use the flame tempate... if the tyranids can, why can't we.

Summary

Fun game, enjoyable list - perhaps some more tweaking needed here and there, lots more testing needed to understand how the army really works on my part.


Simon


Sorry about the state of this Battle Report, lack of HTML means I'm not sure how to float the images around the text - could somebody help me with that? And the 5 images a post is irritating.





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Experience is the fool's best teacher; the wise do not need it.

http://epica.2-72.co.uk


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 Post subject: Batt Rep: Demiurg - IG 3000pt
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 4:03 pm 
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minitroll,

glad to see your bat-rep. It looked like a fun game regardless of the outcome.

as far as your notes here is my take on your observations.

1. the left/right arc are core rules for WE fire arcs. A Overlord's AA fire arc is 180* along its spine to the left or the right. If your opponent attacked directly down the spine of an Overlord (highly unlikely), you would get 4 shots at the incoming. Regardless you can only fire AA once (approach or disengage) from each unit, so you will normally only get 2 shots, even if the aircraft overflew both arcs (from left to right, or right to left).

Fire arcs for the MCF are similar meaing that you will only rarely get to fire all of you flank weapons.

2. for Break their Spirit you would have to wipe out the entire train, even if the train engine is destroyed, the remaining battle cars act as a formation, admittedly very slow, but still a formation.

3. like drop armies tunellers are a gamble, great fun and great sorrow as many a SM player can testify to.

4. AA...the thunderfires have great range, the overlords are tough and have decent range and the Iron eagle are short range but very mobile.

Overlords are the best all-around, but cut into your WE allowance. that's part of the list formula.

Goliaths tend to frighten opponents, so they tend to attract aircraft and artillery. Thunderfire tend to be ignored due to their specialized role.

In smaller games (3000 points and under) the thunderfire are more likely to be under utilized, so try Iron Eagles, combined with a double move each one can cover a 75cm x 30cm area (quite useful in application), plus they have a battlecannon shot!

5. The cyclops....yess this needs work...still have not figured this one out yet...Demiurg V2 is almost wrapped up so stay tuned and keep up the gaming. Demiurg are a tough army for opponents, because you can develop many different deployment strategies for them.

great report, thanks again for the notes!

Ep

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 Post subject: Batt Rep: Demiurg - IG 3000pt
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 5:24 pm 
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Mintroll,

How did you and your opponent feel about the tunnelers and breaching charges?  I have found them to be very irritating when you are on the receiving end of them, but not in an unbalanced sort of way.

What did you think about the assaults and the 'inspired' formations?

I actually have played against this list four times now.  I have won twice and lost twice, so I find it well written for the most part.

I like your flame template idea, even if it means I might get hit by it  :oops: .  

The lack of AA I only realized on one of the four games - the last one we played.  I managed to get two critical hits in a row on two of his Overlord ships, and that left his entire right flank open to ground attacks for the remainder of the game.

The other times I got pummelled.  I flew 3 Phoenix bombers in for a ground attack on turn one, got shot at by a formation of Thunderfires, and lost all three bombers (400 points gone in the blink of an eye).

Do you have another game planned for the future?

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 Post subject: Batt Rep: Demiurg - IG 3000pt
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 7:18 pm 
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Tunnellers>
 Actually during our game, Rich assumed I'd bring them up under his objective on his right flank (the place where my MP lost the engage). After the game though, we agreed the only way we'd ever use them would be as I did, automons in termites on top of the enemy blitz in turn 3. Equivalent to the SM landing a thunderhawk, or eldar marching jetbikes - it won't hold given a good counter attack, but it requires the player to have something to deal with it. Unlike teleporting terminators though, it's not a significant threat; more of a worry to the opponent. Just our thoughts though - in larger games that might vary.

Inspired formations>
 I refer you to the MP assult with MSJ+Trike as combined action, never in all my years has an engagment so clearly stacked in my favour gone so wrong. So there, the rule didn't really show itself.
 The massacre in the centre of the table was again completely weighted towards Rich (I'll curse rough rider clipping engages for minutes to come).
 I feel like the Demiurg need something, shooting alone is too ineffectual over 3 turns to shift dug in infantry, so engages are a must. Thuough a second game to really guage the effect.

Results>
 Nil point pour l'Demiurg.

AA>
 I definitely feel in smaller games the Overlord is the way to go for dedicated AA cover, the gyropers (sp?) would require the re-active style AA that seems to be the target of dislike - I refer the the threads about re-writing the aircraft rules. I feel the outcome of those changes (if any) will require a re-working of most of the experimental lists air component. The instant disengage move would render the 15cm range fairly ineffectual.

Next Game>
Probably won't be for a while sadly, Rich has exams until the end of June, I should probably do some work as well. I promised to try the LatD list next time, I ebay'd (a new verb) the required models the other month and was supposed to try that, then I saw all the squat auctions and bought them as well - so tried this list as a nasty surprise. Last year I bought lots of tyranids off ebay as well, but have never used them either - with Nids v7 in the pipeline that might need a look as well. I equally love and curse ebay.
 The gaming larks a full time job. Hopefully will get some games in early June, write some more reports then.

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http://epica.2-72.co.uk


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