ok, so i have a few games under my belt, i understand the basic concepts of the game, ive read the rulebook, but as it stand i still dont understand FF (firefight) and to a lesser degree CC (closecombat)

when is firefight used? is there times when a firefight is better then actually firing my guns?

when do you initiative CC? is it like an assault move? say i have a unit that i want to move and assault with, is that a move? how do you best utilize assault based armies?

im sure ill have more questions, but the FF thing is my main concern right now.

You use CC when you have stands in base-to-base contact. You use FF when you have stands within 15 cm of the enemy, but not in BtB. FF can be better than firing ranged weapons. It depends on the individual unit and other factors, like terrain.

I'm not sure what you mean by "when do you initiative CC?". By declaring an assault move, you initiate a close combat, which usually uses both CC and FF.

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"I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate." N. Peart

about close combat, do you move straight into combat or do you get to move into a firefight then go into CC? i would imagine a assault unit like genestealers would like to avoid FF and go straight into CC?

For a close combat to take place, you don't actually need to have any units within base to base contact, the criteria is that you must a unit within fifteen centimetres of an enemy unit for the assault to take place (see 1.12.3 'make charge move' in the main rules for more details)

You don't use both FF and CC, rather units which are in base to base contact use their CC value, while units that are not in base to base contact, but are within 15cms of each other use their FF values.

Does that help?

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so your saying a unit that has no guns but is good in CC better make it to BtB with the enemy if they hope of doing anything?

Verily.

Enemy units in turn can assault it with their firefight value by parking outside countercharge range (i.e. at 11 cm or so) and being able to shoot it to pieces without getting any damage in return.

Quick terminology:

"Close combat" means attacks in an assault when models are touching.
"Firefight" means attacks in an assault when the models are not touching.
"Assault" (or sometimes "Engagement") is the entire process of an Engage action.
"Charge move" (or just "Charge") is a single move taken by the attacker (the declaring or active player, the one whose turn it is) during an Engage action.
"Countercharge" is the defender's response move.

An assault is initiated when one side or the other declares an Engage action and moves units to within 15cm of the target.  The initiating force is moving, so the player taking the Engage action gets to decide when and where to stop moving.  Once the attacker finishes moving, the defender gets a chance to countercharge if they want.

The determination of whether to use FF or CC is done by each individual unit AFTER both charge moves and countercharge moves have been taken.  If the model is in contact with another model, it uses CC.  If not, it uses FF.  That means that if you get too close to the enemy, the enemy might be able to drag you into CC whether you want to be or not.

All FF and CC attacks are part of the same assault.  There aren't separate rounds of combat.

There are positives and negatives to using FF instead of ranged fire.  The actual damage inflicted on the enemy will change depending on the relative values of FF versus ranged fire values.  However, more important is that at the end of an Engage action one side or the other WILL be broken (possibly both sides).  It is far more decisive than ranged fire and if care is not taken to properly set it up and support it, the attackers can lose and be broken even if their FF value is better than their ranged fire value.

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Neal

In each turn a formation may perform one activation which may either include some amount of shooting, or may be an assault. To assault an enemy, at least one unit of the formation must end up within 15 cms of an enemy unit after the formation has moved. Once the enemy has countercharged, those units that are within 15 cms but not touching an enemy use their FF values while any unit that manages to get into B-B with an enemy unit uses its CC values.

It is up to you to make the best use of the units in the formation. Sometimes it is better to use distance shooting (and also the enemy does not get to fight back) while if you decide to go into an assault, some units have better FF while others have better CC. As the "attacker" it is your choice and this usually makes a big difference. So for example if a Space Marine player use his Assault Marines to attack, as they have no guns it is better to get them into B-B because they have CC3+. If they are attacked, the enemy usually tries to place his units so that they are not in B-B bcause the Assault marines only have FF5+ for firefights.

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Edit as Neal says - just got to type faster

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"Play up and play the game"

Vitai lampada
Sir Hemry Newbolt

thanks for all the help, its starting to become a little more clear to me now. i think i need to get more games in, looks like i gotta call moscovian up for another go at his necrons