Tactical Command
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Hit Allocations and Armor Saves
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1412		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  code_ronin [ Sun Jan 15, 2006 11:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Hit Allocations and Armor Saves
I have a question about how armor saves should be taken. It appears that the rules intend for you to roll the armor save for each unit/stand separately, after the hits are allocated to stands, not before. So, for example:

? D
A B C

X X X X

Units A, B, C, and D are fired upon by the X's and three hits are scored. The rules indicate you allocate from back to front, so A, B, and C have one hit each. Each hit is then rolled separately for armor saves, to determine which stands are actually removed. So if A and C save, stand B is the only one removed.

Is this the correct method? Because we were rolling saves THEN allocating hits and this method assures that you kill the closest guy if there are any unsaved hits. Which, unfortunately, was my Wild Rider Chieftain or Farseer.

Thanks.

Dale
Author:  MemphisMark [ Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:29 am ]
Post subject:  Hit Allocations and Armor Saves
If all three units (A, B and C) are the same thing, then you just roll three dice together and take any failed saves from front to back. If they are all the same distance from the firing unit, take off whomever you want.

If they are different units, then yes you do have to save them separately.

Hope that helps.
Author:  code_ronin [ Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:45 am ]
Post subject:  Hit Allocations and Armor Saves
I agree that is the easy thing to do, but not necessarily the correct thing to do. Here's the reference:
1.9.6 Allocate Hits & Make Saving Throws: Once all hits have been allocated, make saving throws for each unit that has been hit, using the unit's armour value from its datasheet ... then the unit fails its save, and is destroyed and removed from play. ... Make a separate save for each hit the unit suffers. Remember that the target formation receives a Blast marker for each unit that is destroyed.

Several things to note here.

1. Hits are allocated to specific units (stands) and that unit takes the save. Not the formation.

2. If a unit is allocated two hits and dies on the first, the other hit is lost.

3. Blast markers are not allocated for unsaved hits, but for stands being removed. They are usually the same thing, but not always.

Going the easy route means that units rarely lose formation from shooting, because you are taking out the models that would ensure you stay in formation. Having to move into formation can have a large impact on your next action choices. For example:

A B C D E F G H

If B and C are lost, unit A is now out of formation with the rest of the formation.

Something to chew on. I just wondered how many people were rolling individual dice for saving stands.
Author:  Markconz [ Mon Jan 16, 2006 2:09 am ]
Post subject:  Hit Allocations and Armor Saves
Check out the experimental rules at the SG site. These include hit allocation rules which will probably be adopted in the next rule review. They have a proviso for the situation MemphisMark describes.
Author:  code_ronin [ Mon Jan 16, 2006 3:07 am ]
Post subject:  Hit Allocations and Armor Saves
In my case (which was not fully stated), I would still roll the Wild Rider Chieftain separately, as taking the closest 4+ armor save as a casualty would almost always be him. Although it is slower, I think rolling each stand is probably better, especially when you have mixed units like Saim-Hann Wind Rider hosts with Jet Bikes, Vypers, Chieftains, Farseers, and Shining Spears all mixed in together (but all having the same basic save).

Thanks for the comments.
Author:  Markconz [ Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:50 am ]
Post subject:  Hit Allocations and Armor Saves
Quote (code_ronin @ 16 Jan. 2006 (01:07))
In my case (which was not fully stated), I would still roll the Wild Rider Chieftain separately, as taking the closest 4+ armor save as a casualty would almost always be him. Although it is slower, I think rolling each stand is probably better, especially when you have mixed units like Saim-Hann Wind Rider hosts with Jet Bikes, Vypers, Chieftains, Farseers, and Shining Spears all mixed in together (but all having the same basic save).

Thanks for the comments.

I think even with the new experimental hit allocation rules you have to roll by unit type, rather than by save type. So you would do your chieftan by himself, then all your jetbikes together, then all your vypers together (as an example).
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Mon Jan 16, 2006 12:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Hit Allocations and Armor Saves
It is a difference, especially with 'strung out' units in that their formation can be cut. However for speed we roll 'em and remove closest, not bothering about where a commander is, just for speed. As we all do it it is rarely a problem. Only exception for us is WE detachments where it makes a bit more difference, but even then we prefer removing whole units than damage points off lots.
One for the 5 minute warm up really.

Oh and when playtesting we generally play to the letter of the rules.
Author:  code_ronin [ Mon Jan 16, 2006 5:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Hit Allocations and Armor Saves
Quote (The_Real_Chris @ 16 Jan. 2006 (11:19))
It is a difference, especially with 'strung out' units in that their formation can be cut. However for speed we roll 'em and remove closest, not bothering about where a commander is, just for speed.


This seems like a major deviation from the intent of how the rules should be played, no? By removing the ones you want, you never put yourself in a bind by breaking formation. This is especially true with troops defending terrain and that wish to make sustained attacks.

Quote (The_Real_Chris @ 16 Jan. 2006 (11:19))
Only exception for us is WE detachments ...


Sorry, I am new. What are WE detachments? (Is there a Jargon file or an acronym dictionary on this site?)

Thanks.

Dale
Author:  Dwarf Supreme [ Mon Jan 16, 2006 5:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Hit Allocations and Armor Saves
WE = War Engine
Author:  nealhunt [ Mon Jan 16, 2006 6:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Hit Allocations and Armor Saves
Allocate, then roll.

Probably 90% of the time it makes little difference and we typically roll the saves and then remove stands front to back as you do because it is faster.  However, in cases where it can make a difference, you should stick to the rules.
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