I'd like to know the general consensus on using titans. Why are there so few being used in EA? Is it a points issue or are super-heavies more suitable for use at company level?

The most common type of titan I see in lists are Warhounds. By far the rarest are the battle-class titans like Warlords and Phantoms. I know when working out sample lists I usually find it extremely difficult to justify including one.

It seems like a real shame that unless you're playing a 5000pt game most people would prefer to leave their titans at home.

So what is the lowest point level game that you would consider using a battle-class titan, and are they really worth the bother? (baring admech armies of course)

-Malakai

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-Malakai

"You'll never understand how much watching other people's pain gets me off, hearing their screams and knowing that I have the power of a god." -Velvet Acid Christ

In Epic Armageddon the Titans are severely downgraded compared to all other GW games with 6mm scale and Titans in it. Also the Reaver has no MW weapons available (wel he does, but not the only official configuration). And the Warlord and Phantom/Warlock are pretty expensive at 3000 points (low number of activations, unless you use lots of cheap, weak formations).
That's why you almost only see Warhounds and Revenants.

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Part of it, I believe, is that people prefer to use airpower, especially in 3000 point games.  In larger games, there's more room in the, ususally standard, "one third" to fit in bigger toys.

Additionally, at the 3000 point level, a "battle class" Titan will tend to be the Break Their Spirit target for the enemy, so they're killing two, mechanical, birds with one stone by making it a focus for attacks, where, even breaking it will put a big crimp in the enemy's plans.

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I regularly use Warlocks in my Eldar armies, they are the terror of my opponents.

I see the Banelord as a valuable addition to any BL force.

Also, I believe the Warlord to be an excellent choice for SM armies as it adds a lot of AT and even some TK fire, but rarely play SM.

Seems to be a amtter of style. Facing IG on a regular basis discourages battle-titan use though, it is just too easy to wreck them with those pesky, dirt-cheap, always-taken Deathstrikes.

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I agree on the Warlock Titan.  This Eldar nightmare seems to be the exception to the rule and I have used this in a tournament with success.  As for the others... I think it is more about activations than the titans being underpowered.  750-850 is a big point sink that will limit your activations unless you go with some fragile scout formations.  Most experienced players tend not to bring low activation counts when games 'count' - a.k.a. tournament settings.

EDIT: To answer your question, the lowest point level I would consider would be one where I could arrange safely for a reasonable number of activations (10 at 3000, 11-12 at 3500).

But I agree that they really are wonderful to watch on the gameboard.  I played my Necrons vs. Studdering Dave's Eldar and we had my Abbatoir go up against his Warlock titan.  The result of these two big close combat gorillas going head-to-head was pretty impressive.

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Warhounds appear all the time at UK tournaments. Mostly with Marines but with various Guard armies too. Reavers are becoming more popular with the 60cm range increase.

All the chaos warengines are popular with ferals appearing a lot. The bigger titans aren't used often though.

Revenants have become less popular over time, you see the occasional phantom or warlock.

As others have said at 3000 pts its hard to have air and large titans in a list and air is currently the more popular choice.

Then are titans too powerful and as a result over priced? Considering the BTS objective and cheap TK weapons able to reduce them to slag they seem more like a liability than an asset. If they were maybe cheaper, making their points cost comparable to just another large formation, then wouldn't they be more useful even if they were nerfed somewhat as a result?

-Malakai

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-Malakai

"You'll never understand how much watching other people's pain gets me off, hearing their screams and knowing that I have the power of a god." -Velvet Acid Christ

I think they are priced fine in general.  It is simply one specific type of game (tournament play at 2700-3000 points) that they don't fit well into because they are BIG points relative to the game.  When you play 3500-5000 point games or scenario games, Titans become great purchases IMO.  

As for Reavers and Warlords, I have always felt that all they needed was AA capability to balance them out- something small like 2 x AA6+.  Heck, the Warlord is SHOOTING AT PLANES on the cover of the rule book but it has no AA?  Silly.

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It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Maybe they considered titans too slow to react to aircraft?

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-Malakai

"You'll never understand how much watching other people's pain gets me off, hearing their screams and knowing that I have the power of a god." -Velvet Acid Christ

Or maybe they just didn't think about it.   I don't rightly know - I am just going off memory of that plane getting slammed by fire from the Warlord.  Maybe it was artistic license and there is no fluff to justify it.  However, these things are TITANS.  You would think they'd have something for AA.  

The Imperator has been re-written to have an obscene AA weapon (too powerful IMO but that is another topic).  So obviously there are others who feel that these larger titans should have this type of defense weapon.

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I could be mistaken as we didn't use Imperators very often, but didn't they have AA during Titan Legions too?

-Malakai

Edit: But I can see your point about the Imperial Titans not having AA, especially the Reaver. The Reaver has a missile launcher like the Eldar titans and they get AA attacks out of theirs.

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-Malakai

"You'll never understand how much watching other people's pain gets me off, hearing their screams and knowing that I have the power of a god." -Velvet Acid Christ

There are two issues for me, which are somewhat related. One is the obvious points issue. As Mosc mentions, 750-850 is a big points sink. The other issue is Titans, specifically the larger ones like Warlords and Phantoms, not being able to split fire. It still seems silly to me that a Warlord can fire at one formation only.

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Do you know what the rationale was behind designing them like that?

-Malakai

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-Malakai

"You'll never understand how much watching other people's pain gets me off, hearing their screams and knowing that I have the power of a god." -Velvet Acid Christ

The ability to lay a BM on more than one formation would make it too good or would break core mechanics?

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Throwing around BMs is a substantial ability in EA.  The ability to put multiple "coming under fire" BMs plus the kills is pretty darn nasty.  It's mostly in the end game, when a titan has full firepower regardless of damage and many infantry/vehicle formations only need a BM or two to greak that would result in a split-fire titan laying absolute waste to all and sundry.

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I think everyone's covered the challenges with titans in low-moderate game levels, but I would add one significant issue - territory control.

EA GT rules are about controlling terrain.  Titans are tough but they don't cover much frontage, leaving the enemy to maneuver around you and making it hard to do much more than capture a single objective.  It's fine to have some units that are like that, but it's a large portion at 2700-3000 points.  Low speed aggravates that somewhat.

That's also why I think the Eldar Warlock titan fares a bit better.  It's maneuverability and speed give it a large threat area and offset the limited frontage.

A larger titan can be used effectively at lower points, but it's not easy and it requires shaping your entire strategy around the titan.  As has been pointed out, at 3500+ points, those disadvantages rapidly melt away.

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Neal