Here I am again, not liking what is, looking at what could be.

I sort of like the Epic IV rules, some are broken but that can be fixed.
Most don't like the Epic II rules, that can't be helped much.

I don't like the sub-tactical force building of E4, force cards of E2 are simple and quick to use. Also easier to handle point and balance wise.

What happens if we merge E2 and E4. Rules from E4 and organisation from E2?

Yes I know, I am muddying the waters, but this group could pull it off.
Right now it's more playtesting that playing it seem as...

_________________
It would be nice to get lightspeed,
so far we can only reach slight speed.- Erik M
092b85658e746a91d343e53509d357744e56f641

We do have army cards for EpicA.

But why merge? Its a different scale of combat. 2nd had company cards, EpicA is company level warfare. Its a lot smaller. More models is just playing more points in Epic and the system can't cope when it gets too big.

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

Both are the same scale, soldier wise. Usually.
I don't have to much to compare to right now, but a nE Squat brotherhood is a company warriors with one each platoon thunderers and berzerkers.
Most Ea formations are as these, right?
Yeah, some are smaller, but usually ~3 big vehicles, ~9 vehicles or ~15 stands make a company.
There's armycards? Must have missed them. Or did you mean those going like "one additional nob" cards?

The major benefit would be that you arrange your force along less convoluted lines. Easier to explain, easier to show, easier to get oldies back.

_________________
It would be nice to get lightspeed,
so far we can only reach slight speed.- Erik M
092b85658e746a91d343e53509d357744e56f641

I think you won't find many EA players who want to merge with NetEpic. Both games have a very different style. And EA certainly has smaller formations (or rather the rules give an advantage to armies with many small formations).

_________________
"Your limbs are mighty. Let them smite the foes of our Emperor."

Thanks for reminding me of another broken part of EA. No general likes to give many different orders and hope that they get through...

Anyhow, the "merge" was the Ea rules and the nE organisation. And if that means minimizing the damage of the broken "many formations are good", then it's all for the good of the game!

_________________
It would be nice to get lightspeed,
so far we can only reach slight speed.- Erik M
092b85658e746a91d343e53509d357744e56f641

Well, the design philosophy includes more than just an advantage for armies with many formations. And lots of players don't think that that part is broken but instead like it.
If you dislike the core of EA or the majority of its rules then why do you want to merge it with NetEpic? Just so that more players play a system that you like? Great idea.

_________________
"Your limbs are mighty. Let them smite the foes of our Emperor."

I'm also wondering what your goal is.

_________________
"I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate." N. Peart

Really both games have their own advantages, why bother to merge?

Or how about making a third game - Epic Apocalypse! A simplified version of Epic A so you get the bigger formations from 2nd without being bogged down?

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

A project to create army lists using the SM2 style force org should be easy.  Calculate the per-unit costs for EA and put them on the old cards.  It would take a bit of adjustment for things like 3-unit formation (which are particularly vulnerable to breaking) and you'd need to put the Commander units with one of the platoons (because 1- and 2-unit formations are wonky) but it should be pretty quick and easy to take that into account.

People created company cards for EA almost before it was released.  Some googling should turn some up pretty quickly.

_________________
Neal

Ok, no reading of what I wrote (except by nealhunt).

Also, wheater a rule is broken doesn't tell if it's liked or not. It's two separate entities.

So far there's three broken rules I've found. The game is still enjoyable thou.
(Actually four with the reason for Leviathan being w/o shield.)

_________________
It would be nice to get lightspeed,
so far we can only reach slight speed.- Erik M
092b85658e746a91d343e53509d357744e56f641

Ok, no reading of what I wrote (except by nealhunt).

_________________
I know a dead parrot when I see one and I'm looking at one right now.
Tyranid AC

I have a feeling the TRC possibly understands your aims best - which seem to be finding a way to combine the the organisational structure of E2 with some form of higher Command and control under the 'simpler' rules of E4. Indeed, it suggests that you may even be trying to find a way of bringing the two styles of Epic and the respective communities back together.

While this sounds an intruiging idea for attempting to turn Epic into something that resembles the more mainstream wargames rules, I think you are unlikely to find many people at this stage that would be prepared to develop what would in effect be a fifth evolution of the game.

However, as Neal and Jaldon say, sorting out cards for the army structure and organisation should be simple enough as a private project - it is the other bit about revising the way the core rules work that is going to be challenging.

_________________
"Play up and play the game"

Vitai lampada
Sir Hemry Newbolt

Just to be clear.......................

I am not disparaging your idea, though I admit I am not really interested in working on it, but I don't think you are going to get the support from either end of the game spectrum that you may believe is out there.

Even my group pulls out and dusts off the old SM/TL rules and has a go with them once in a while. But all agree, in the group, the Epic-A set is the best version going.

My advice would be to start slow, work up the cards and points first, then  do a draft of some rules, and I do mean a draft set of rules. Only then present it to some friends, give it a go, and if it seems workable post em here.

Good Luck, and I do mean it.........

Jaldon

_________________
I know a dead parrot when I see one and I'm looking at one right now.
Tyranid AC

My apologize, if I'm not getting through, then it's not the readers fault, usually, but the writer's. Sorry about that.

Again there's a full write up from Jaldon. I'm believing I write just to get you going!   And as your writings allways are worth it I might keep at it.
'Cause never do you get a better view at the game than when Jaldon writes!  
There are other too, but Jaldon is Tha Man.

And fair enough, there's a trade off between activations and small easily broken units. Rulewise.
It and the other ones are still broken thou ("JJ says" is a rule).
nB: broken and playable isn't excluding each other.

Damn, I have to get more painting done and more games under my belt. There's to damn few of us here about to get things rolling thou.

And then Ginger and perhaps TRC.
An obvious benefit would be to get us all into one big happy family again. Getting it all a bit more mainstream is perhaps not a bad idea. But bringing Ea and nE together would just there double the number of available players for each of us.
For me personally I'd be happy to play Epic under the Epic II's organisation and the Seeds of War's rules (with a straighter use of dice).

All of these things makes it, as I see it, hard to bring back the players to the Epic table. Ie bad vibes from Epic IV and long time since Epic II and then the split between Ea and nE.

_________________
It would be nice to get lightspeed,
so far we can only reach slight speed.- Erik M
092b85658e746a91d343e53509d357744e56f641

Thanks Jaldon.
I'll make a try worth it's name.
And be quiet here till it's done.

(Apart from the Alfakta Campaign.)

_________________
It would be nice to get lightspeed,
so far we can only reach slight speed.- Erik M
092b85658e746a91d343e53509d357744e56f641