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back! and forgot a the rules a bit...

 Post subject: back! and forgot a the rules a bit...
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:49 pm 
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Hi!

After a ( too ) long time without playing Epic, I finally had the time to play again. This was a nice 3000 point game, marines versus guards. Unfortunatly, we had some rules issues and I guess the nice people of these boards will gently help me solve them...

1) We were playing using the rules in Marconz' handbook. Are they the rules people are using? Or do people only use the errata available on the SG site?

2) In our game, a formation of leman russ was surrounded by sentinels. Every leman Russ was in the Zone of Control of a sentinel, but the formations were not intermingled. Is it legal to air assault the leman russ in close combat? The core rules seem to say no, but the handbook yes. Am I right or did I miss something?


3) If a war engine takes dammage from crossfire, does it get an additional blast marker, as would a detachment consisting of normal units?


Thanks!





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 Post subject: back! and forgot a the rules a bit...
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:37 pm 
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Quote: (Hena @ 28 Oct. 2008, 11:39 )

You can move through one units ZoC to get to your targets.

That's an air assault only rule? That seems odd given drop armies can't do the same thing.

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 Post subject: back! and forgot a the rules a bit...
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:52 pm 
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OK, I think I see what you're getting at. When a unit enters a ZoC of an enemy unit it must move to base-to-base with the closest unit who's ZoC it has entered. So, in thurse's example, the Thunderhawk could fly over the sentinels land near the russes, and any marines could then assault the russes because they are the closest.

That makes sense to me.

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 Post subject: back! and forgot a the rules a bit...
PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:41 pm 
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Thanks for the answers.

To be more precise, here is what the rules say...

According to the handbook :

Once a unit has entered the target’s Zone of Control the
requirement to move to base contact takes precedence
over other restrictions and it may move through another
unit’s Zone of Control, even if that unit is not in the target
formation.

In the 2008 FAQ, the paragraph 2.1.12 says approximatly the same thing.

In the previous example, this means that we can land a thunderhawk in base to base with a Russ, and  disembark units in base to base with the russes too. Am I right?

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 Post subject: back! and forgot a the rules a bit...
PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:09 pm 
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Yes, as the Russes would now be the closer of the units of who's ZoC you would be in.

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 Post subject: back! and forgot a the rules a bit...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 1:17 am 
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Umm I think there may be a missunderstanding here. The rules you are referring to start by saying that you may not enter an enemy ZoC unless you are engaging that unit / formation (1.7.3). During an engage move, each unit can move where it likes, but once it enters the ZoC of an enemy unit, it must then move directly towards that enemy unit. Once the enemy unit is contacted (base-to-base), it loses its ZoC for the rest of the engagemen; so other assaulting units may then penetrate the enemy formation to attack units in the middle of it.

However, Thurse's original question effectively asked whether the ThunderHawk could assault the Leman Russes through the Sentinel's Zoc, and the brief answer is No; you can only enter the ZoC of the formation that you are assaulting.

There has been an amendment to this in the FAQ which at first glance seems to remove this particular restriction. Yme-loc and I asked about this over on the SG forum. Neal Hunt's answer there was to the effect that you cannot land in the ZoC of the sentinels without assaulting them. The ammendment removes this restriction in an arcane situation where the scouts ZoC projects from behind the target of the charge, and would have to be traversed in the last few millimeters before contacting the target. In your case, if the Sentinels surround the 'Russes such that their Zoc covers them, then one or more of the sentinels must be destroyed to remove their ZoC before the ThunderHawk can land (and note Broken units still exert a ZoC).

However, as the 'Russes are a large formation, it would seem to be possible for the THawk to land on the tanks but outside the ZoC of the sentinels, barging some tanks out of the way as it did so. The troops inside could then engage the 'Russes as they enter the tank's ZoC before crossing the scout's Zoc to do so (assuming there is enough space for them to deploy of course!!).

Teleporting troops have exactly the same problems - they must land outside the ZoC of the enemy, and so cannot land between the Sentinels and the 'Russes if there is no area free of enemy ZoC.

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 Post subject: back! and forgot a the rules a bit...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:43 am 
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This makes sense, and scouts can really protect a formation from air assault.

As mentioned in your linked, the wording of the FAQ is not that clear, IMHO. I would only take it in consideration to avoid the "scouts screening from behind" situation, which is the spirit of the FAQ.

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