Tactical Command
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Characters and Special Units
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1358		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Tas [ Wed Aug 24, 2005 12:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Characters and Special Units
Has anyone doen any toying about or work towards updating the Special Characters (eg Commissar Yarrick, or the Space Wolf Lords) or the Special Units (eg Blood Slaughterers, Emperor's Sythes, Kruger's Heroes) to EA?

I used to really enjoy the appearance of "specials' like this.  Thier uniqueness adds a great deal of flavour to any game  Its only has to be a single attribute that gets changed to make a difference.

If nobudy has, and there is any other interest in them, maybe its worth getting a list of them together and doing something about it?  ???
Author:  Tas [ Wed Aug 24, 2005 1:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Characters and Special Units
Hena - they already made an apprearance in SM 2nd Edition and Epic40k!

No, they are not the same as 40k:the characters value is in how they affect larger formations and the Army as  whole, not the silly character driven combat fcus of 40k...
Author:  Tas [ Wed Aug 24, 2005 1:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Characters and Special Units
To each their own
Author:  Reaversbane [ Wed Aug 24, 2005 1:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Characters and Special Units
Ive been toying for a while with ideas for characters, but I personally 'adjust' the scales of where I feel the characters 'sit'. Im a fan of command and control having a big effect on formations performance, so by my scale a supreme commander is only really a space marine captain or even lower, or an Imperial Guard Captain (in charge of a company). This is very different to the book, which states that the SC's are people like Yarrick and co. (quite specifically in his case if I recall).

I would like to see individuals like that get some REAL boosts. Multiple supreme commander re-rolls, other deployment benefits, ability to adjust objectives slightly, that kind of thing, to really represent how dramatic a difference their leadership can make, but not doing it by just giving them huge amounts of extra attacks, which should be their smallest contribution.

As a friend of mine often says (usually in criticism of GW games) "Napoleon was reported to be worth 10,000 men, they didnt mean he could take them apart with his bare hands!" (Apologies for misquotes...).

The special formations should be fairly be possible, but they arent something Ive had a lot of Experience of (I remember the cards being printed in WD, but I dont think I really used them).

Suffice to say, I wouldnt mind a natter about what they can do, and their application in E:A, and it could make an interesting fan addition.
Author:  nealhunt [ Wed Aug 24, 2005 2:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Characters and Special Units
Tas:  I think most can and should be modelled by existing abilities within the army list.  For example, I'd put Yarrick as the IG Supremem Commander w/Commisar.  If you really wanted to reflect additional ability, most of the time it could be done by simply adding 1 or a combination of the typical charater-like abilities - leader, inspiring, etc..

If you wanted to go with some more extreme abilites, the thing to do would probably be to design scenarios around it, rather than trying to figure out a balanced way to include it in a GT army.

Things that would represent better command and control for exceptional commanders would be things like increased Strategy Rating, boosting the initiative of some formations, additional SC rerolls, or a bonus to rally.
Author:  Frecus [ Wed Aug 24, 2005 4:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Characters and Special Units
I like this idea. Though I have never really played the game, I wouldn't mind such a thing appearing would I ever find an opponent.
Beter yet, I would mind it less than when someone would come with a special character in 40K.

An idea for yarrick specifically: Any company he is attached to gains re-rolls to hit against orks.

Frecus
The glade wanderer
Madwarrior
Author:  Reaversbane [ Wed Aug 24, 2005 4:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Characters and Special Units
Id thought of it as higher level than that Frecus (ie Strategy and the like), but actually stuff like that could be cool. I might even add all members of Yarricks formation get rerolls (is there a precedent for rerolls? I cant recall one, but something similar could work) AND fearless, but as Neal rightly says actually balancing this kind of thing probably isnt reaonable (not impossible, but requiring a lot of effort). Would still be fun to field tho' :D

I faced 10k of guard last weekend, and it would have been cool to see someone like Yarrick in the enemy army, leading the way (granted I was playing Eldar, so he probably wouldnt care...), and I think that is the kind of game where they fit perfectly (ie, too big to be played overly competitively).
Author:  Dwarf Supreme [ Wed Aug 24, 2005 4:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Characters and Special Units
Tas, I agree with you, I like the idea of special characters and special units. They do add extra variety and flavor. I don't see any reason why "unoffical" rules can't be created for them. It might not be possible to balance them for a GT game, but so what. Just as long as suitable point values are assigned to them, it shouldn't be that big of a deal. :cool:
Author:  nealhunt [ Wed Aug 24, 2005 5:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Characters and Special Units
It can definitely be done.  Specialist formation swill probably be easier to design balanced rules for.

The BA playtest list, for instance, has the Detah Company in it.  0-1 limitations are sprinkled liberally throughout the armies for flavor reasons, and so on.  Relatively modest rules could work.

A good example might be UM Nid Hunter Veterans.  They might break, but they know how to retreat in orderly fashion and avoid Nid ambushes that would otherwise result in hack down hits - Fearless v Nids.  If you want points, I'd say start at ~+50 per formation, limit 0-1, and work from there.

Imperial Fist Termies led by Lysander.  Fewer teleport errors means they get to reroll BM dice when teleporting.  0-1, +25 points.
Author:  MaksimSmelchak [ Wed Aug 24, 2005 6:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Characters and Special Units
Hi Guys,

The sky is the limit for home games, but Jervis has mentioned that he wants to keep uber-characters out of E-A tournament games.

I like E-A a lot, but the characters as is, are kind of vanilla-plain in game play. I guess that's realistic and OK as such, but sometimes it seems to be lacking.

I think that E-A as a game system is operating with the world view that individuals don't change history.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want a broken system with uber-powerful characters, but something other than a +1 to assault or firefight might be nice.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
Author:  Tas [ Thu Aug 25, 2005 9:09 am ]
Post subject:  Characters and Special Units
Thanks for your comments guys.

I was thinking along the lines that Commanders do eactly that - Command. ?

A such, they get a special rating within the existing rules and have an overall strategic effect on the battlefield. ?However, the troops in the immediate vicinity may get a more tactical effect from him, such as +1 to hit, or whatever. ?

I agree with neal that anything more extreme than that becomes scenario driven or the uber-character effect comes in.

I'll try to get a few basic ones done and we can then chat about them and see if we wat to progress with the idea. :)

Cheers!
Tas
Author:  Ithikial [ Thu Aug 25, 2005 12:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Characters and Special Units
Though my number of posts don't support it,  :;): been playing epic for a while. (3rd ed, so not really a long time). I'm not for special characters in Epic. The scale isn't right. Can't stop people from playing scenarios designed around heroic actions of what have you, but having a base converted to have say Dante, or Yarrick shouldn't give the player +3 MW CC or something silly like that. If anything special is to be done, I'd agree with what was said before, combine some of the general characteristics from the special abilities list and be done with it. On this scale, only the effect on whole formations counts, not the individual bonus attacks a certain character may provide. That's generic 40k.
Author:  Legion 4 [ Thu Aug 25, 2005 4:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Characters and Special Units
Could give them each one or two modified versions of the old SM1 Heroic Actions rules ?  ???   Or E:A upgrades ?
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