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| Multiple Shots http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13191 |
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| Author: | redsimon [ Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Multiple Shots |
The 2008 FAQ says: Q: Devastators have two missile launchers each. Can a Devastator unit split its fire into one AP shot and one AT shot when shooting? A: Yes it can. Not the best kind of FAQ entry, as it only refers to one kind of unit. Also old Devastator stands have only one missile launcher each. My questions are: Which kind of units or war engines can do the same? All or just those where the diferent shots come from multiple weapons with their own weapon entry or an entry that has a multiplier as in the case of the Devastator? What exactly is a multiple weapon? Does it have to be for example "2 x weapon blabla" where each weapon has only a single shot or is it applicable when it is an entry which provides for example "2 x AP3+/AT4+" but only for a single weapon? Could the Turbolaser Destructor of an mperial Titan split its fire into AP and AT shots? Or is it only possible that one Turbolaser Destructor of a Warlord or Reaver (as they have two each) does AT shots while the other does AP shots? |
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| Author: | Vaaish [ Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Multiple Shots |
I would assume that any time a unit has multiple of the same weapon that have both at/ap values it is allowed to split fire since you choose which value to use when you fire that weapon and if there are two of the weapons you can choose each time it is allowed to fire. Eg a hydra or support squad could shoot one auto cannon at a tank and one at a troop stand from the same enemy formation. EDIT: for clarity |
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| Author: | pixelgeek [ Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Multiple Shots |
Quote: (redsimon @ 29 Jul. 2008, 05:50 ) Not the best kind of FAQ entry, as it only refers to one kind of unit. FAQ entries are often based on questions sent in or posted. Some of them were rewritten based on feedback from Jervis or the ERC but many were left as is Also old Devastator stands have only one missile launcher each. Its a E:A FAQ not an FAQ for old farts who don't update their armies :-) My questions are: Which kind of units or war engines can do the same? Havocs and I suspect any unit/WE that had multiple versions of the same weapon system but not a single weapon system with multiple shots |
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| Author: | Dave [ Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Multiple Shots |
Quote: (pixelgeek @ 29 Jul. 2008, 11:01 ) Havocs and I suspect any unit/WE that had multiple versions of the same weapon system but not a single weapon system with multiple shots The game rules doesn't take semantics like that into account. I would think that if the TLD is a 4x weapon you can split it between AP and AT however you like until I see a FAQ that says otherwise. |
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| Author: | pixelgeek [ Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Multiple Shots |
I would think that if the TLD is a 4x weapon you can split it between AP and AT however you like until I see a FAQ that says otherwise. The FAQ entry is for a specific case where a unit has multiple of the same weapon. Why you think that allows you to extend it to a general rule is not clear. The FAQ is of a specific case not a general one |
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| Author: | Vaaish [ Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Multiple Shots |
I think that 1.9.5 in the EA rulebook is clear enough in that it says "The player must decide at this stage whether weapons will fire with their AP or AT values if they have both. Then roll a D6 for each shot..." If you have decided that the weapon as a whole is firing AP you can't decide at the level of the individual shot. |
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| Author: | Dave [ Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Multiple Shots |
I think that because I take the FAQs as illustrating a point of the rules in cases like this. In addition I think that because there's nothing in the rules to say I can't. Using the TLD as an example, the 4x is simply a rate of fire. If a Princeps were to fire a TLD indiscriminately (ie not specifically targeting AVs or infantry) at a mixed formation he would kill both AV and infantry units. Why should the rules not allow for this? If I fire a single TLD I should be able to split it 2/2, 3/1 or however I like. |
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| Author: | J0k3r [ Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Multiple Shots |
I dont think that it is relevant how many of the individual weapons are actually on the model or stand as Epic is, largely, not WYSYWIG. Nowhere in the rules does it specify that a stand of devastators actually have 2 missile launchers per se. Instead they are armed with missile launchers that confer 2x AP/AT shots. Whether this is one rapid firing weapon, 2 weapons or 4 slow firing weapons is beyond teh scale and scope of Epic. Extending this logic- a TLD has 4X shots, thus they should be treated in the same way. The rules mechanics simply don't extend to any other interpretation as far as I can see. |
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| Author: | pixelgeek [ Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Multiple Shots |
Quote: (Vaaish @ 29 Jul. 2008, 09:02 ) I think that 1.9.5 in the EA rulebook is clear enough in that it says "The player must decide at this stage whether weapons will fire with their AP or AT values if they have both. Then roll a D6 for each shot..." I thought it was in the rules. Was wondering that while I was scrapping the purity deals from a Warhound What the heck is that Dev question still doing in the FAQ for then? |
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| Author: | redsimon [ Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Multiple Shots |
Quote: (pixelgeek @ 29 Jul. 2008, 17:01 ) Its a E:A FAQ not an FAQ for old farts who don't update their armies :-) No need to be rude, in the rules, Errata and FAQ it is stated several times that the players are encouraged to use their old miniatures, that's why I mentioned it. |
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| Author: | pixelgeek [ Tue Jul 29, 2008 6:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Multiple Shots |
Quote: (redsimon @ 29 Jul. 2008, 09:57 ) Quote: (pixelgeek @ 29 Jul. 2008, 17:01 ) Its a E:A FAQ not an FAQ for old farts who don't update their armies :-) No need to be rude... I put a smilie in it for a reason. Pay attention to them next time as people just don't add them randomly. |
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| Author: | Evil and Chaos [ Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Multiple Shots |
Quote: (pixelgeek @ 29 Jul. 2008, 18:37 ) Quote: (redsimon @ 29 Jul. 2008, 09:57 ) Quote: (pixelgeek @ 29 Jul. 2008, 17:01 ) Its a E:A FAQ not an FAQ for old farts who don't update their armies :-) No need to be rude... I put a smilie in it for a reason. Pay attention to them next time as people just don't add them randomly. Where's L4?     
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| Author: | Vaaish [ Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Multiple Shots |
Nowhere in the rules does it specify that a stand of devastators actually have 2 missile launchers per se. Instead they are armed with missile launchers that confer 2x AP/AT shots. Whether this is one rapid firing weapon, 2 weapons or 4 slow firing weapons is beyond teh scale and scope of Epic. Actually it does. In the profile it says Weapons: 2x missile launcher. the firepower line tells you how many shots. By way of example is the Reaver titan, Weapons line: 2x turbolaser destructors; Firepower line: 4x ap5+/at3+ so a total of 8 shots, four of which can be directed to a different type of target in the formation. |
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| Author: | Man of kent [ Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Multiple Shots |
I'd stick with Vaiish's interpretation; if there are multiple weapons present (i.e. 2xMissile Launchers, 2xTurbolaser) then each of those may decide whether to fire AP or AT, where a weapon fire multiple SHOTS (i.e. 4xAp4+/At4+) then i would say that all of those shots must either be of one flavour or the other. If you WERE allowed to split shots like that i can see it being open to abuse. |
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