Tactical Command
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Characters and Specialists
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13181		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  redsimon [ Sun Jul 27, 2008 4:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Characters and Specialists
The FAQ mentions Extra Attacks from units and Characters, but it doesn't refer to base attack upgrades of Small Arms or Assault Weapons.
Good example is the Eldar Exarch (or Autarch):
If I add one to a unit of Fire Dragons or Howling Banshees, does/do his Extra Attack(s) get the MW or First Strike ability?
These units have the ability as part of their base Small Arms or Assault Weapons attack, not of an Extra Attack. Yet they don't have it in the "Notes" section at the bottom of the profile, like for example Warp Spiders who would certainly give their First Strike ability to any Extra Attacks from characters.
Author:  pixelgeek [ Sun Jul 27, 2008 4:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Characters and Specialists
I'd think so.

Have you checked the FAQ?
Author:  Dave [ Sun Jul 27, 2008 4:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Characters and Specialists
No, a character only inherits those special abilities on a unit, not those on the weapons of a unit.
Author:  redsimon [ Sun Jul 27, 2008 4:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Characters and Specialists
Quote: (pixelgeek @ 27 Jul. 2008, 17:43 )

I'd think so.

Have you checked the FAQ?

The FAQ doesn't mention this situation.
Author:  pixelgeek [ Sun Jul 27, 2008 5:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Characters and Specialists
Quote: (Dave @ 27 Jul. 2008, 08:44 )

No, a character only inherits those special abilities on a unit, not those on the weapons of a unit.

He is referring the extra attacks modding a unit's attacks
Author:  pixelgeek [ Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Characters and Specialists
Needs a definitive FAQ entry as its really non-obvious.

After rereading through some of the other lists I would have to agree that it does not get the MW or First Strike abilities.

Other lists clearly add MW to the weapon notes for Characters.
Author:  redsimon [ Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Characters and Specialists
So from reading the thread at SG I understand it the way that currently there is no official solution and it (hopefully) comes with the next rules clarifications.
Good that my Eldar army is still in the planning stage.

EDIT:
Rule design question:
So which way do you give a unit a base MWFF (or a different ability) and additional Extra attacks MW/diferent ability too?
With the current rules it seems impossible, you could only give the unit in the notes MW/diferent ability, but that would add MW/diferent ability also to close combat attacks. This also doesn't work when you want to convert the base CC and additional Extra Attack CC's with an ability.
Author:  Ginger [ Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:07 am ]
Post subject:  Characters and Specialists
I do not think the nomenclature has been formalized as such, but in principle, adding a character to a unit has the effect of adding notes to both the "Weapon" attacks and the "Unit" notes. So a Marine character adds his "MW" weapon to the units CC weapons, and can add "inspiring" to the unit; or the ORK Oddboyz which add a ranged attack to the unit.

So adding an Exarch character to a formation adds his notes (or abilities) to the unit/weapon, not the reverse. Consequently, adding a Banshee Exarch just adds an additional "normal" attack to the weapon, while as you note, adding a Warp-Spider Exarch adds a further attack to the "First-strike" unit.

The specific question regarding adding an Exarch to the Firedragon unit has not been cleared up. This revolves around the fact that the notes are written to provide the FD unit a MW attack in FF, but not in CC. However, it is unclear whether the note is a "unit" note, or a "weapon" note (personally I lean towards a "unit" note). Equally Exarchs are supposed to add their own "special" weapon to the unit, but it is also unclear whether the Firedragon Exarch has some special form of Fusion gun that would justify a second MW FF attack, or some other special ability/weapon that merely permits the extra attack.

As to providing means for adding specific abilities to particular attacks, as Hena says this is usually done through confering the required abilities on different weapons. Checkout the stats of War Engines and Titans for examples.
Author:  nealhunt [ Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Characters and Specialists
Sheesh!  It's amazing how we've ended up with FAQs that have been answered many times and just haven't made it into the "official" list.

We really need to scrap the SG boards FAQ, point to the official 2008 doc, and then have the thread just include items not in the official doc.

===

To recap the Exarch discussion, "Notes" abilities apply to everything the unit does.  "Weapon" abilities apply only to the specific weapon.  In the case of the Exarchs, they add a single attack with its own weapon stat line.  The special abilities of other attacks don't apply to the new extra attacks.  Only "Notes" abilities are applicable.

===

On a side note, I'm of the opinion that the CC Exarchs should get some sort of special ability added to their CC attack to make up for the fact that FF is more useful.  MW would be appropriate, as it's justified on other characters as both specialty gear (Diresword, Executioner, Scorpion's claw) and particular tactical acumen on the part of the leader.
Author:  redsimon [ Wed Jul 30, 2008 2:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Characters and Specialists
Another question in the FAQ points out that you cannot use "Sniper" in Assaults (for FF or CC), although it is (in some cases) in the notes section. I think it would be better to get rid of that exception by moving "Sniper" from the notes section to the actual weapon. I think from official lists only the three units IG Snipers, Eldar Rangers and SM Scouts have that rule. SM Scouts get it through army list, so it should say "Add "Sniper" as "Small Arms" to one Scout unit.")
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