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Rules Questions for new player
DaCone2
 Post subject: Rules Questions for new player
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:43 pm 
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Hello everyone, me and my friend had our first game of EA yesterday and there were a few rules queries that came up:

1) Is it possible to crossfire into area terrain? Given that you can't see through to the opposite side of a wood ( even if less than 10cm wide? ) and you have to have LoS to the other friendly detachment?

2) Can an infantry stand that was charged in cover, use its cover save if in base to base contact? If so, do Macro Weapons ignore cover in close combat as it doesn't mention cover in the assault bit. Only the shooting.

3) In Assaults, do units with +1A MW attacks ( to represent power fists or whatever CC weapons ) work in both CC and FF? Also would a Captain in an infantry stand get the tactical stands normal attack, plus another one that counts as a macroweapon or do the macroweapon rules effect both?

4) Given that macroweapon hits are put on designated models by the owning player, logically this can mean that if a marine stand and a landraider are in base contact with a Marine Captain, the owning player can choose to take the macroweapon hit on the marine to avoid losing the reinforced armour re-roll on the Land Raider?

5)Are all the attacks in CC at the same time so everyone gets to attack before they are removed?


We both used 2 tactical detachments and a Land Raider Detachment each ( with one of the tacticals having a Captain with a razorback ) It was good fun though I'm hoping to get my imperials up together quickly so i can play with those

Thanks ( if i posted this in the wrong place would someone be able to move it for me please? )
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Dave
 Post subject: Rules Questions for new player
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 3:14 pm 
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1. Both the friendly formations just need to have a line of site to th enemy formation, not to each other. The rule says "draw a straight line" so I wouldn't take that to mean a "line of sight" to each.

2. It does mention cover in the assault section:

Infantry   units   from formations  taking a charge action may not   take cover saves (they are assumed to have left cover to charge the enemy),  but  other   infantry units may  take cover  saves normally.


So I would think yes they would get a cover save.  And Macro-weapons only ignore regular saves, not cover saves.  That's what the Ignore Cover special rule is for.

3. They have to be in base to base to use an +1EA CC attack, and within 15cm with an los to use a +1EA FF attack.  However, when you allocate your hits you pool them all together for non-WEs.  I had similar questions a month or two ago, take a look here:

http://www.tacticalwargames.net/cgi-bin....t=11501

If an extra attack is listed as MW, only the extra attack is MW.  Same with First Strike etc.

4. As per the Handbook 2008, allocate the normal attack first, front to back and then the MW hits, front to back starting with the closest unit again.

5.  Yes, unless they are first strike.

I'm assuming you're going by the rule book, take a look at the Handbook that Markonz put together:

http://www.tacticalwargames.net/cgi-bin....t=11218

There are a lot of clarifications in there and some rule changes from the original.




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Chroma
 Post subject: Rules Questions for new player
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 3:26 pm 
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(Dave @ Feb. 17 2008,14:14)
QUOTE
So I would think yes they would get a cover save. ?And Macro-weapons only ignore regular saves, not cover saves. ?That's what the Ignore Cover special rule is for.

Actually, Macro-Weapon attacks negate *all* types of saves except for the following:

Only units with reinforced armour or invulnerable saves receive a saving throw against hits from a macro-weapon (see 2.1.6 and 2.1.11). Any other type of target that is hit does not get a saving throw at all. (E:A Rulebook p39)

There is no distinction between "armour" saving throws or "cover" saving throws; all are negated by Macro-Weapons.

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Dave
 Post subject: Rules Questions for new player
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:01 pm 
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Not to bring the Vindicator discussion into this  :O, but why does it have MW4+ Ignore Cover then?  That seems to be a redundancy.

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DaCone2
 Post subject: Rules Questions for new player
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:04 pm 
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Ah, i should have specified that we were using the Handbook. Sorry for the confusion  :blush:


1) Looking at the crossfire rules more carefully, it doesn't actually mention LoS, rather says "draw a straight line"


2/3) Are the macroweapon rules in the handbook different? In the shooting bit it says:

"Only units with reinforced armour or
invulnerable saves receive a saving throw against hits from
a macro-weapon (see 2.1.6 and 2.1.11). Any other type of
target that is hit does not get a saving throw. Cover saves
are also negated, although the -1 to hit modifier does apply."
   
but that is in the shooting section of the macroweapon rules but it doesn't seem mention it in the assault part . . .

So the macroweapon attacks that can be used in CC have Assault in their notes. Right, that makes sense.
So a Space marine Captain in a tactical squad as 1CC attack and 1MW attack in CC, but only 1FF attack? ( that doesn't count as MW ) Gotcha!  :)


4) Ok.


5) Ah ok.


I think we will have to have a test game sometime soon cos we missed a load of other rules too. Ooops :)

Cheers dave and chroma. You've helped loads!
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Mephiston
 Post subject: Rules Questions for new player
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:18 pm 
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Can I ask are you using the Handbook or the core rules? Some of the answers regarding hit allocation in assaults will differ depending on which you are using.

Dave - Ignore cover removes the -1 to hit in addition to removing the cover save. Thats why the vindicator has MW and ignore cover.
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Chroma
 Post subject: Rules Questions for new player
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:34 pm 
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(DaCone2 @ Feb. 17 2008,15:04)
QUOTE
2/3) Are the macroweapon rules in the handbook different? In the shooting bit it says:

Hey DaCone2, read the first paragraph of 2.2.7 Macro-Weapons, *before* the Shooting Attacks subsection.  That gives the "basic" rule of what Macro-Weapon does: "No saves", the sub-setions just (try to) clarify things.

So, all MW attacks, regardless of type, negate saves.

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DaCone2
 Post subject: Rules Questions for new player
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:27 pm 
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Aha! Thanks again!

Another question,Firing macroweapons at mixed detachments:
If i get a shadowsword to shoot at a imperial guard infantry detachment with additional leman russes behind the infantry, can i choose to fire at the vehicles or the infantry or would i have to hit the closest infantry? So the Leman Russes would have 13 ablative wounds? Or can you choose to fire at infantry or tanks allocating hits to the closest of that type?
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DaCone2
 Post subject: Rules Questions for new player
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:47 pm 
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Right, so in the diagram below, a shadowsword firing at the lefthand detachment would have the hits allocated to the infantry as they are closest, but can't choose to fire at the tanks.



Whereas in the example on the right, the same shadowsword would be able to fire at the tanks or the infantry as the infantry are taking cover around the vehicles, therefor count as being in cover, so you can choose to ignore the ones in cover due to the targetting rules?

If one of the vehicles in the detachment were a war engine then the shadowsword could choose to shoot at that instead of the others but not carry extra hits over to the rest of the units?

That right?  :D
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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: Rules Questions for new player
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:10 pm 
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So, MW weapons aren't allowed to target vehicles?

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zombocom
 Post subject: Rules Questions for new player
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:12 pm 
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Nope, they're applied to the closest units left alive after the saves frpm the non macro hits have been taken.

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: Rules Questions for new player
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:23 pm 
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(zombocom @ Feb. 20 2008,14:12)
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Nope, they're applied to the closest units left alive after the saves frpm the non macro hits have been taken.

I understand that, when it comes to mixed formations, but it makes no sense for Shadowswords, which are specifically designed to be anti-tank. In other words, a MW is being penalized compared to an AT weapon in terms of being able to target vehicles. IMO, there's something wrong with the system when a Leman Russ can target vehicles with its Battle Cannon, but a Shadowsword can't with its Volcano Cannon.

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