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Well this probably isn't going to be a popular opinion but I thought I'd toss it out here in any case.

GW doesn't support Epic properly and all the work you guys do here and on other forums (commendable though it is) simply enables them to do it and still continue to sell figures.

Nothing is going to change at GW if you continue to promote Epic for them and allow them to point to the community support for the game as some sort of a positive influence instead of an indication that GW has abandoned the game.

GW has outsourced promotion of the figures and in some cases development of the game to you guys. And is not giving you a darned thing in return.

Why do you do this? Being a fan is one thing but being used by a company in this manner is quite another. There needs to be a reciprocal exchange for the relationship to be beneficial and in this current relationship GW gives nothing and receives all of the benefit.

GW doesn't provide any support for the game because it is clear that they don't need to in order to sell Epic figs and this situation isn't going to change until the community realises that they are being used and stops enabling GW in this manner.

If they want your support they should give you something in return, and they clearly haven't.

So why continue to help them?

Author:	pixelgeek [ Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Enabling GW
Well this probably isn't going to be a popular opinion but I thought I'd toss it out here in any case. GW doesn't support Epic properly and all the work you guys do here and on other forums (commendable though it is) simply enables them to do it and still continue to sell figures. Nothing is going to change at GW if you continue to promote Epic for them and allow them to point to the community support for the game as some sort of a positive influence instead of an indication that GW has abandoned the game. GW has outsourced promotion of the figures and in some cases development of the game to you guys. And is not giving you a darned thing in return. Why do you do this? Being a fan is one thing but being used by a company in this manner is quite another. There needs to be a reciprocal exchange for the relationship to be beneficial and in this current relationship GW gives nothing and receives all of the benefit. GW doesn't provide any support for the game because it is clear that they don't need to in order to sell Epic figs and this situation isn't going to change until the community realises that they are being used and stops enabling GW in this manner. If they want your support they should give you something in return, and they clearly haven't. So why continue to help them?

Author:	Evil and Chaos [ Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:28 pm ]
Post subject:	Enabling GW
I'm with Hena, especially on numbers 1 and 4. 40k is (currently) a game for kids... there's nothing wrong with that fact, but I enjoy having a wargame set in the same fluffiverse that has a modicum of tactical challenge to it.

Author:	pixelgeek [ Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Enabling GW
(Hena @ Apr. 27 2008,08:24) QUOTE I have few reasons. None of which address the points I brought up. I like the 40K background and Epic:A as well. That doesn't mean I like being used as an unoffical GW marketing tool though.

Author:	Evil and Chaos [ Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Enabling GW
I like the 40K background and Epic:A as well. That doesn't mean I like being used as an unoffical GW marketing tool though. But you don't mind doing the same for SciFi Commander?

Author:	primarch [ Sun Apr 27, 2008 5:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Enabling GW
(pixelgeek @ Apr. 27 2008,11:11) QUOTE Well this probably isn't going to be a popular opinion but I thought I'd toss it out here in any case. GW doesn't support Epic properly and all the work you guys do here and on other forums (commendable though it is) simply enables them to do it and still continue to sell figures. Nothing is going to change at GW if you continue to promote Epic for them and allow them to point to the community support for the game as some sort of a positive influence instead of an indication that GW has abandoned the game. GW has outsourced promotion of the figures and in some cases development of the game to you guys. And is not giving you a darned thing in return. Why do you do this? Being a fan is one thing but being used by a company in this manner is quite another. There needs to be a reciprocal exchange for the relationship to be beneficial and in this current relationship GW gives nothing and receives all of the benefit. GW doesn't provide any support for the game because it is clear that they don't need to in order to sell Epic figs and this situation isn't going to change until the community realises that they are being used and stops enabling GW in this manner. If they want your support they should give you something in return, and they clearly haven't. So why continue to help them? Hi! Wow PG! You can't imagine how many years I've been thinking about exactly the same thing. I still don't have a good answer. I think the ONLY thing thats holding me in is the responsibility I feel towards the netepic community and the finalization of netepic gold. I no longer play epic games in public places like I used to, I no longer try to get people into the epic hobby, nor do I "evangelize" about epic on the net. I haven't bought stuff from GW directly in a long time. I support GW as little as I can because of what you mention. Once netepic is done, I think it will be the last great work that I will personally lead on it. I have long since moved on giving my time and enthusiasm to other games (Rackham PPP's on the 28mm front and my own Heresy game in 6mm). While I'm not at the level of no support, I'm trying to get it to zero. You are correct we DO enable GW and they are not worth it at all!. Primarch

Tactical Command http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/

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Author:	Mephiston [ Sun Apr 27, 2008 5:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Enabling GW
There are hundreds of manufactures producing quality miniatures in a variety of scales for use in ancient battles. None of them produce rules. I'll still buy figures to play these games. If GW want to sell me models I can use with a rule set of my choice (Epic A, NetEA maybe, or dirtside II or even Sci-Fi commander) I can chose to buy or not. If I buy their product or not will not bring back SG, or influence them to carry on working on the rules IMHO. A boycott of GW does nothing, other that help ensure that the mini line is discontinued too. Something I for one would be sad to see happen.

Author:	The_Real_Chris [ Sun Apr 27, 2008 5:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Enabling GW
How does it compare PG to fans developing stuff for games where the developer has moved on/died whatever? Certainly it promotes the GW models, but look at the alternatives out there now. Give it a bit longer and what you could see is Epic rules for other rule sets - how does that work with GW?

Author:	pixelgeek [ Sun Apr 27, 2008 5:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Enabling GW
(Evil and Chaos @ Apr. 27 2008,08:36) QUOTE But you don't mind doing the same for SciFi Commander? How is that the same?

Author:	pixelgeek [ Sun Apr 27, 2008 5:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Enabling GW
(The_Real_Chris @ Apr. 27 2008,09:12) QUOTE How does it compare PG to fans developing stuff for games where the developer has moved on/died whatever? Do you have an example?

Author:	pixelgeek [ Sun Apr 27, 2008 5:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Enabling GW
(Hena @ Apr. 27 2008,08:52) QUOTE And as Rug asked, how can I do the above and not promote E:A? Sorry but that is my point. Perhaps you and Rug aren't understanding what I wrote.

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