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Army List Review - Chaos 4000 pts
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1197		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  QuintAan [ Fri Jul 08, 2005 1:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Army List Review - Chaos 4000 pts
I've got a 4000 pt game versus an eldar opponent. This is actually going to be a rematch as we played last week at 4K pts and tied, 1 goal to 0 in my favour. So the list here is much the same with a few changes I want to try.

Its made using v3.4 of the Chaos List with a couple nods to the stated changes Pixelgeek is thinking of putting in.

Infantry Platoon (8 marines) with 2 obliterators, icon
= 480 pts

Infantry Platoon (8 marines) with 4 havocs, icon
= 480 pts

Scout Detachment (4 scout marines) with 2 rhinos
= 170 pts

Scout Detachment (4 scout marines) with 2 rhinos
= 170 pts

Armoured Detachment of 4 Predators, 1 Land Raider
= 275 pts

Armoured Detachment of 4 Predators, 1 Land Raider
= 275 pts

Strike Detachment of 4 Chosen Terminators
= 260 pts

Strike Detachment of 4 Raptors
= 140 pts

Cavalry Detachment of 8 Bikes
= 300 pts

Reserve Detachment of Decimator, 3 Defilers
= 450 pts

Assault Company of 2 Deathwheels
= 550 pts

Air Support Formation of 3 Hellblades (actually swiftdeaths but I like the idea of the hellblade much better)
= 200 pts

Air Support Formation of 2 Helltalons
= 200 pts

== 4000 pts

The Chaos Warlord would most likely be the chaos lord of the raptors.

Comments are welcome keeping in mind one main restriction from the background of my Chaos Legion: I cannot and will not take anything dedicated to a chaos god other than chaos undivided. So don't bother with suggestions of Cult Marines or greater daemons.
:;):
Cheers!
Author:  pixelgeek [ Fri Jul 08, 2005 6:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Army List Review - Chaos 4000 pts
I'd remove the aircraft entirely. They are useless against Eldar.


I'd beef up the Raptors a bit. Currently its a small formation and will break easily. I'd also give them some Sacrifices. As I would also do with the Chosen.

I'd take the Defilers from the Decimator formations. Its too easy for your opponent to add BMs and break the Decimator by shooting the Defilers.

If you have the extra points from the aircraft I'd suggest adding a formation of Land Raiders and perhaps adding a Daemon prince to the Chosen (he can be Undivded)
Author:  QuintAan [ Fri Jul 08, 2005 6:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Army List Review - Chaos 4000 pts
Re: aircraft - how do you deal with the threat of Eldar aircraft? I.e. how many obilterators?

Re: Raptors - Yeah, I got to get more stands of them. :/

Thanks for the suggestions.
Author:  pixelgeek [ Fri Jul 08, 2005 8:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Army List Review - Chaos 4000 pts
Quote (QuintAan @ 08 2005 July,10:38)
Re: aircraft - how do you deal with the threat of Eldar aircraft? I.e. how many obilterators?

I don't really worry aabout their aircraft that much. I don't worry about aircraft in general. CSM units have good armour and can get in cover fairly easy making most aircraft less of a threat.

What I would be more concerned with are Nightspinners and any Disrupt weapons the Eldar have. Disrupt can really ruin your day. I'd suggest putting your armour formations on "Nightspinner" hunting duty if he brings any
Author:  QuintAan [ Fri Jul 08, 2005 8:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Army List Review - Chaos 4000 pts
He usually fields two detachments of Nightspinners, and I have been prompted in mid game to declare my hatred of them. :D
Cheers!
Author:  Jaldon [ Sat Jul 09, 2005 9:49 am ]
Post subject:  Army List Review - Chaos 4000 pts
I'd drop a Scout, get one more Chosen, and an Obl in the Chosen formation, then teleport the whole bunch near one of the VS formations. If it gets in ouch!

Otherwise PG's suggestions are good, and he is correct about A/C as they pertain to effectiveness against CSM. Dis weapons are a bigger threat.

Jaldon
Author:  Clockwerks [ Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Army List Review - Chaos 4000 pts
Mua ha ha ha! Prepare for the end, Bill!

Actually I don't know what all the hype is about Eldar Aircraft, to be honest. Mine suck, I usually get them blown sky high (no pun intended) before they do anything worthwhile... But then of course I seldom excercise any control when it comes to juicy units like that. :p

Only 148 tocks until game time! woo!

Adam
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Wed Jul 13, 2005 7:33 am ]
Post subject:  Army List Review - Chaos 4000 pts
I'm out of touch with the CSM development but if you can do it max out on individual decimators (those warengines with the 3BP, MW, Ignore Cover guns) and use the experimental artillary rules (i.e MW fire uses the AP table for all targets).
They will push up your activations, make up for the fact you have decided to forgo the free fearless troops (well, slightly make it for their lack) and slaughter most eldar infantry and vehicles with the barrage MW attack. Happily double everywhere until you get a chance to sustain and if you break strongly consider going towards the enemy (unless you are near death in which case go and hide :) ).

Interesting list incidentally. It raises the question of whether an undivided black legion should be as good as one with cult marines.
Author:  Irondeath [ Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Army List Review - Chaos 4000 pts
Chris, that option is no longer as appealing. 3.5 changes, taken from Zac?s blog:

Changes include

Limit of four upgrades per formation

CSM Retinue down to 8 CSM units

Cult Marines now an upgrade

0-2 limit on Assault Co

Forlorn Hope only CSM units

Price decrease for CSM Retinue

Summoning Changes (extensive and based on Neal and Audrey's Daemon Pack rules)

Helltalon now 2BP with no Ignore Cover

Critical Changes to Titans

Strategy roll of 6 adds 1D3 daemons, roll of 1 loses 1D6 daemons

IB no longer Inspiring

Champion now 2D3 Augment Summoning

Daemon Prince is now Fearless

Limit of one GD per faction on the table at any one time


So a maximum of 2 lone Decimators.

No "Free Fearless" troops.

Retinue price decrease is 280->275 points.

Helltalons at 300 w/o Ignore Cover

Summoning, when it is resolved, will definitely be more exepensive than before, by a factor of 2x or 3x IMO.

All said and done, yours and others concerns are taken seriously and the problems are adressed.


As to Eldar Aircraft: I witnessed a major air brawl lately, 2xNightwings vs. hordes of Fighta-Bommers (12?), and the orks good slaughtered badly. Total carnage. Nothing wrong with that, just my impression that the power of Eldar air should not be underestimated.
Author:  QuintAan [ Wed Jul 13, 2005 1:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Army List Review - Chaos 4000 pts
PLayed the game last night. He won after three turns by a score of 2-0 (Break their spirit and Take and Hold goals). My inexperience caught up to me this time as I felt like I didn't have a hold on the game from turn 1.
Full battle report with pictures later in the week.
Author:  pixelgeek [ Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:17 am ]
Post subject:  Army List Review - Chaos 4000 pts
Quote (The_Real_Chris @ 12 2005 July,23:33)
I'm out of touch with the CSM development but if you can do it max out on individual decimators (those warengines with the 3BP, MW, Ignore Cover guns) and use the experimental artillary rules (i.e MW fire uses the AP table for all targets).

I wouldn't max out on them if only because they will be limited in the next version of the list.

That was in the Recommendations topic from the old Forum remember Chris?
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:50 am ]
Post subject:  Army List Review - Chaos 4000 pts
Sorry PG, I had to dissapear for about a month before the end of the forum and so missed out on any developments therein. The changes certainly appear wide ranging and interesting leading to I think so complete re-evaluation of the list through playtesting. Can't wait to see the next version of the list, hope it coincides with my availible game time!

I think though for old times sake I'd still take the 2 single decimators :)
Author:  pixelgeek [ Thu Jul 14, 2005 5:14 am ]
Post subject:  Army List Review - Chaos 4000 pts
You can still see the topic here

http://www.specialist-games.com/epic/fo ... IC_ID=6644

You'll still be able to take two Decimator formations but that Decimator heavy army you built is no longer possible.
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