Wh40k weapons to Epic |
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BlackLegion
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Post subject: Wh40k weapons to Epic  Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:22 pm |
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Yes. I opened the can of worms.
Finally i invented a functionable system to translate Wh40k weapon stats straight into Epic.
It works...at least for weapons used by Space Marines and the Imperial Guard.
Critisism is welcome.
Next year (  ) i will look if my system will work for Eldar, Ork, Tyranid, Necron and Tau weapons too.
Final EDIT: Now inculded are ALL weapons found in the different Wh40k Codices, Imperial Armour 1-4 (i still miss 5 and 6)and the two Apocalypse books. Where i didn't found stats in Apocalypse for i used the Wh40k profile instead.
Next update will be if i can get hold of the new Codex Orks.
Please download from this link:
http://www.epic-battles.de/index.p....&id=865
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ragnarok
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Post subject: Wh40k weapons to Epic Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 11:49 am |
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Location: Reading, England
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I like the new weapon stats, for the most part. I like how MW has become an ability rather than an attck in its own right. Allows the multi-melta to be an anti tank weapon only. Though it does make them slightly more powerful (MW weapons in general not the multi-melta) since you now can't screen tanks with expendable infantry.
The only bit I'm not so sure about is the volcano cannon. It does seem slightly more powerful than the current version ( a garrunteed 2 DC damage and blast), but maybe I am just use to TK(D3) and the ability to destroy warhounds and SHTs in one shot.
It could have easily had a special rule in 40K that says if you hit a target you hit your target it suffers D3 destroyer hits. It is a giant laser it shouldn'y have a blast radius.
I take it that the different ranges for SHT and titan mountings are due to the ranges in forge worlds apocalypse book (something to do with reactor output I guess)
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BlackLegion
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Post subject: Wh40k weapons to Epic Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 3:05 pm |
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Yes the Strength D (stands for Destroyer = Titankiller) weapons are a bit strange in this respect in Wh40k.
Instand penetration even on a glancing hit.
+1 on the vehicles damage table (that is on a 3+ it is destroyed, WE lose a DC on 4+ and on 5+ you roll again).
Instand death to multiple wound models (with the expeption to models whichare immune to instand death which lose only one wound).
Only Invulnerbale Saves protect against this.
It ignores Cover Saves.
And i forgot to add Disrupt to the Titan sized Vulcano Cannon but it doesn't matter anyway because of TK, so Disrupt would only affect models with Invulnerable Save.
And yes in IA. Apocalypse the Shadowswords Volcano Cannon fires only half the range and has half the blast radius than the titan Vulcano Cannon.
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BlackLegion
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Post subject: Wh40k weapons to Epic Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:52 pm |
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BlackLegion
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Post subject: Wh40k weapons to Epic Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 7:41 pm |
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Again an update. I adjusted the rules how to determine the number of shots each weapon has and added the Lance special ability to Strength 10 and Armourpciering 2/1 weapons.
I hope now it is error free and i haven't forgot anything again.
But comments on holes in the system are welcome nonetheless
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Evil and Chaos
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Post subject: Wh40k weapons to Epic Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 8:39 pm |
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Well, I see a system, but no weapon stats...
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BlackLegion
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Post subject: Wh40k weapons to Epic Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:02 pm |
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Huh?
Page 1-2 has the table (Wh40k stats/ current Epic stats/ system stats), page 2-3 has the system.
Besides: Griffon Heavy Mortar added.
A clarification on the Manticore Missile:
The 4x shots are a bit missleading. Each individual missile is a one-shot weapon system but the Manticore has 4 of them. So it can fire 1 missile each turn, or an alphastrike of all 4 missiles, or 2 missiles every other turn etc.
It is missleading because the Hydras Twin Longbarelled Autocannon has listed only one shots but the vehicle itself has two Twin Lb Autcannons. So the Hydra has effectively 2 shots with his Twin Lb Autocannons.
Perhabs i should simply labeled it Manticore (AA) Missile System instead of Manticore(AA) Missile
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Evil and Chaos
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Post subject: Wh40k weapons to Epic Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:09 pm |
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Ah I can see the other pages now.
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BlackLegion
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Post subject: Wh40k weapons to Epic Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 3:42 am |
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ragnarok
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Post subject: Wh40k weapons to Epic Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:59 pm |
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I like most of the chart but I've been thinking and I don't think some weaposn translate across perfectly.
For example an earthshaker doesn't produce a balst radius the size of a barrage marker, but it could effect that area with a sustained barrage over a few minutes.
And I think that is what your chart is missing. The rocket pods are unlimited shots in 40K representing a barrage of shots over a few minutes. But that is all that a rocket pod is good for. A few minutes of firing. Thus the 1BP single shot rule in epic.
Am I making any sense?
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BlackLegion
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Post subject: Wh40k weapons to Epic Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:59 pm |
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You miss something:
The Earthshaker for example has two firing modes: one single aimed shot (no BP in Epic) or lots of shots over some amount of time which cover some area(= BP in Epic).
The Multiple Rocket Pod isn't a one-shot weapon. At least not in Imperial Armour: Apocalypse.
But i see what you mean. In Wh40k you can fire one shot a turn. But in Epic one turn represents 6 turns of Wh40k.
But here are the problems: If you have 6 times the chance to shoot at a vehilce it is almost guarenteed to be destroyed. So all hits in Epic would be autohits and auto kills or you would roll 6 times and make 6 times the armour saves
But this really can't be it? 
So Epic here is a bit abstract: One single aimed shot (or burst) on long range (= AP or AT value used),
or
multiple shots at long range indirectly (= a Barrage) if the weapon is capable to fire its shell high up in the air without a line of sight necessary.
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ragnarok
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Post subject: Wh40k weapons to Epic Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:11 pm |
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Well 40K does represent an assault in epic so it should be all CC and FF attacks are MW
With the earth shaker I see the two firing modes as either aiming at the trget, thus the AP4+/AT4+ or the fire as many shells as we can in that general direction. Thus the 1BP which hits a bigger area but with only AP6+/AT6+.
I would also apply the reasoning for the MRP to being one shot to the manticore being slow firing.
In oe epic turns it fires off 4 turns worth of 40K shots, then spends jut over a 40K turn to reload.
Realsitically there should be a torjan per manticore per reload, but that just complicates matters.
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BlackLegion
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Post subject: Wh40k weapons to Epic Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:25 pm |
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I thought about a rule for the Trojan to carry an additional 2 or 4 missiles. But the Manticore can only shoot 4 at once.
So it is capable of two alphastrikes during a game.
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Ginger
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Post subject: Wh40k weapons to Epic Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 2:43 am |
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While I appreciate the effort put in to an important piece of research, into whether troops with the same weaponry have their stats unified, I think you may be asking the wrong question.
Pehaps a better question would be to ask why the designers gave the troops different stats in the first place. I suspect that there may be many reasons why the stats could be different to reflect the different quality of the troops, the way the weapons are mounted, aiming mechanisms etc which make it quite feasible that the ultimate effects would be different - and which actually provides some of the colour to the game.
One other suggestion would be to check and reduce the maximum ranges of the larger weapons, both because the W40K comparison is suspect (as others point out elsewhere), and because of the elastic ranges point you discuss in the other thread.
Having said this, the tables do provide an interesting starting point for any budding designers, and provides interesting reading for those who would like variable arms (eg for titans).
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BlackLegion
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Post subject: Wh40k weapons to Epic Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:42 pm |
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@Ginger: If you haven't realised yet: Epic doesn't take into account if the same weapon is used by different units. It doesn't change the stats. A Heavy Bolter on a Space Marine Tank is as good/worse as on a Imperial Guard Tank despite the fact that a Imperial Guardsman has a lesser Ballistik Skill.
And why reducing the maximum ranges? The only weapons which shoot farther than in the E: A rulebook are both versions of the Volcano Cannon. And the Turbo-Laser Destructor isn't too far off.
On Topic:
I have added the Plasmagun. I realised i had to include a system so that it is able to shoot in Epic. This causes the effect that the Assault Cannon, Demolisher and Flamer weapons are back to their rulebook ranges
I changed the Blast special ability a bit to better reflect Wh40k effects of Strength D in combination with the massive 10" template.
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