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E:A is dead, long live E:A
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1087		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Magnus [ Fri Feb 25, 2005 9:40 pm ]
Post subject:  E:A is dead, long live E:A
In case anyone is still wondering what the future holds for the Epic line, point your browser on this thread:

http://www.specialist-games.com/epic/fo ... IC_ID=5596

Swordwind is the last printed book for E:A. Future supplements are online only.

No new books + few or no new minis = very dead game line. So long, E:A.

God bless NetEpic.....
Author:  CyberShadow [ Fri Feb 25, 2005 10:27 pm ]
Post subject:  E:A is dead, long live E:A
Rumours of its demise have been greatly exaggerated.

I have also seen the upcoming 'plans' for the game, and I must admit that I am extremely frustrated by it all. GW seems to be cutting the diversity in their business. This can only be bad. I am sure that many people get into the hobby because it is a whole new and complete environment. The question has already been raised as to how they can make the accountants notice by giving away rules and publications for free and cutting back drastically the minis produced, if they couldnt do it when people were actually paying for them. The cut back of SG, along with the axing of both Warhammer Monthly (ok) and Inferno (oh no!) are two steps which cannot help even their main games range.

That being said, I dont think that EA will really die. I do think that there is already a good support network for it (almost like Jervis didnt fully trust the support level  :D ). My only real concern is that SG will open up the previously cancelled Epic lines. I want the whole pachage opened up, and at least all of the archive troops such as the Chaos plastic sprues.

I dont think that that game will realy die, but I also dont believe that 'official' support will count for anything or help the game much. It will live through its dedicated player.
Author:  primarch [ Fri Feb 25, 2005 11:54 pm ]
Post subject:  E:A is dead, long live E:A
Hi!

Some things are so "true" that it takes all the fun out of commenting on them.... :;):

E:A, in my view will go the way of epic 40k, becuase like that game its not a "complete" game. Meaning, it doesnt have offical published rules for all armies and at no point was there a full line of available miniatures for ALL armies.

The only reason second edition space marine and titan legions has lasted as long as it has thorugh netepic is becuase it a "full" system. You name it SM2/TL/Netepic has it. No unit, army or model of choice has been deleted or forgotten. While I can hardly say fans of this older system or netepic are in generous abundance, the fact that we can still build on its "completeness" gives us the edge to last as many years as there are people who care to invest in it.

Epic 40 nor E:A have this advantage. If you are a chaos or tyranid player you just got hosed for the second time in a row. No new rules or figs. Yes, we can be optimistic and expect "something" in the form of support, but as I have pointed out since Epic A was still a gleam in Jervis's eye, GW doesnt want to support it, so it will just fade away.

There are only two things which, in my view, need to happen for Epic A to be anywhere near where netepic is years from now, and those are:

1. A group of people need to step up to the plate and do NetEpic A. In other words cut the cord from GW and extend and expand missing army lists, quickly and efficiently. Easier said than done, but vital to its continued exisitance.

2. FW needs to fill the gap in epic minis production. It seems poised to do just that, but well see if epics fading market presence does/or doesnt affect FW's perception on making money off epic.

In my view history WILL repeat itself with Epic A unless some true fans salvage it. Trying to keep it alive, while still depending on GW is just day dreaming. Its only a little more than a year since its release and quite frankly its at leasts as bad off than epic 40k was at a similar time frame.

Any version can "live" in the most basic sense (somebody, somehwere plays it), but without support from some group, how alive will it truely be?

Yea, yea, I know, my usual "doom and gloom" you say. But while I am not a native Missourian, I do agree with their state motto....

...SHOW ME!

...and GW has "shown me" they dont care about epic.....

Primarch
Author:  Freshmetal [ Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:04 am ]
Post subject:  E:A is dead, long live E:A
Hi,

Personally, although I like to think about E:A optimistically, I must say that I agree with a lot of what Primarch and CS said. I am saddened by the way that things seem to be going, but I have faith in the "devoted" community (ie:those who have helped develop the rulebook and those who maintained NetEpic) that we will see continued development of E:A, whether it is in an official capacity or independant. I've seen enough inspirational stuff from the Epicomms "crew" and a handful of other people on the SG forums to know that there are people willing to contribute their time and ideas to keeping the spirit of E:A alive.

And on an associated note...
As none of us can exactly affect GW's financial business or their marketing strategy (awful though it is), it really annoys me to see so many threads on the official forums complaining about how people can't get their favourite army or how the minis are too expensive (it sucks, but deal with it! search ebay, etc) and a million other things. It's clear that Jervis and the other SG guys are doing their best with limited GW support and that they'll do their best to continue to produce minis/release rules. Online-only supplements and a slow release schedule would suck ass, but if it means E:A can continue over it dying another death, then so be it (although it's not my first choice, believe me).

I know that even I (oh yes, it's true!) can whinge and whine about the bad side of E:A/GW/SG, but if the community can maintain the appetite for E:A that I have seen (in general) since even before it's release, then I for one shall remain optimistic.

/End of Rant (for now)

Cheers,
Freshmetal
Author:  primarch [ Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:37 am ]
Post subject:  E:A is dead, long live E:A
Hi!

What is kind of unfair is that the person that least deserves to be reading and hearing about how bad epic support is - Jervis, is also very helpless to change GWs policies regarding SG games.

I wonder, very strongly, just when Jervis will follow in Andy Chambers footsteps......

Primarch
Author:  Haarken [ Sat Feb 26, 2005 2:24 am ]
Post subject:  E:A is dead, long live E:A
GW has too many products to juggle at the moment cutting out the least profitable makes sense, it is a shame that it is epic that is being cut out but to be perfectly honest I am not entirely suprised, whilst Epic has always held a dear place in my heart it has not held a dear place in GW's heart for a long time. Having taken a long break from GW, I decided to set foot in a GW store again only to find that they only play three games now. 40k, Warhammer and LOTR... I asked one of the guys about epic and he had like no clue, told me that I had to order epic minis either instore or online. Heh I'm a 22yr old and I'm a little apprehensive about handing money over and not having anything in return until 1 or 2 weeks time, Imagine how a 12/13yr old feels. GW doesnt want Epic around and I can see BFG, Necromunda, Warmaster and the other SG games dissappearing soon too.
Author:  Legion 4 [ Sat Feb 26, 2005 5:46 am ]
Post subject:  E:A is dead, long live E:A
Too bad ... but this does not look good, no matter how you look at it.  Personally, I've got over 14 years worth of EPIC rules and models.  But I would have liked to see some of the new models they talked about.  F/W may make few Epic pieces, as it always has.  And don't forget they did the complete Tau Army, save for a few pieces, which probably will be made eventually. But who knows about F/Orks, Necrons, etc., etc ... :{
Author:  iblisdrax [ Sat Feb 26, 2005 6:06 am ]
Post subject:  E:A is dead, long live E:A
Sigh.  Bad news again.  Primarch, you may be right, Epic:A may fade away.  But like Epic40k before it, my small group will play it regardless of what GW does or doesnt do.  Because we like the rules.

Nuff said.

my 2cents,

iblisdrax
Author:  Markconz [ Sat Feb 26, 2005 6:22 am ]
Post subject:  E:A is dead, long live E:A
:(  Nuff said, not arguing with Primarch this time around.

At least you'll still be able to get the miniatures and there is a 'Net-Epic Armageddon' already in existance...

Nonetheless I am not happy about this development.
Author:  primarch [ Sat Feb 26, 2005 3:49 pm ]
Post subject:  E:A is dead, long live E:A
Hi!

As I said before, fans of the system MUST take a vested interest in its further development to continue its existance. Those "beta rules" they have posted should be mass test tested and modified to suit the needs of the hard core fans and made available post haste.

Its a lot of work, make no mistake, but its rewarding and fun.

I have full confidence that several people on these forums could easily coordinate and lead such an effort.

Go forth and play epic!

Primarch
Author:  stormseer [ Sat Feb 26, 2005 4:15 pm ]
Post subject:  E:A is dead, long live E:A
Bah.... I find myself taking Primarch's cynical point of views on GW more and more every time something like this comes up. :L

Poor Jervis, it must be dreadful for him to be so limited in what he can do for the system with GW's mad new policies....  :(
Author:  Legion 4 [ Sat Feb 26, 2005 4:16 pm ]
Post subject:  E:A is dead, long live E:A
Even if no rules are published "hard copy", I'd still like to see a few F/Ork and Necron models plus the CI. ?Whether, you like it or not all the other armies have years worth of models ! SM1/AT1/SM2/TL/E40K ... that's a lot of stuff! :)  I've got most of it arrayed in my War Room ! And I collect IG, SM (including Traitor-SM1), Ork, Eldar, Chaos/Cultists, Squat, 'Nid, TL, and Tau !  Did I miss any ?!     :;):
Author:  stormseer [ Sat Feb 26, 2005 4:45 pm ]
Post subject:  E:A is dead, long live E:A
...along with the axing of both Warhammer Monthly (ok) and Inferno (oh no!) are two steps which cannot help even their main games range.


Interesting, didn't know this was on the cards...

Warhammer Monthly/Comic has recently been voted the years favourite British comic (for about the 3rd time iirc) - another case of GW shooting themelves in the foot then? :L
Sounds that way to me....
Author:  wargame_insomniac [ Sat Feb 26, 2005 5:12 pm ]
Post subject:  E:A is dead, long live E:A
It is disapointing. But these things happn with gaming companies. As an accountant I find it very frustrating that my enjoyment of gaming is all too often adversely affected by decisions made by other accountants! }:)
Oh the irony....
I liked Epic SM2, albeit I found the later releases were making the game to complicated (too many similar but different special rules). Like most people here I hated Epic40k as it over simplified the game. All my old SM were binned (really badly apinted) and all my old IG were thrown in the back of the wardrobe.

I got into Mechwarrior Dark Age because it initially had the feel of a fast game featuring combined arms forces of mechs, tanks and infantry. Then a bit like Epic Sm2, Mechwarrior Dark Age got more and more complex with each release and I became disatisfied with Mechwarrior Dark Age.

The release of Epic A came at the perfect time for me- I was annoyed wth myself for having missed the playtesting period but looked forward to playing it down at my gaming club. But whilst the Epic A rulebook was great my gaming buddies were n't happy. Where was the lists for Eldar, Chaod & Nids?

I am sure Swordwind is a great book (I have yet had a chance to pick up a copy). But the announcement that it is the last hard copy book has killed off any slight chance that rest of my gaming buddies would get aboard the Epic A bandwagon. This leaves me and perhaps 1-2 others that might be occasional players.

The only way I have got of getting my buddies to play is to get 2 opposing forces fully painted and take both down to get them to play. It looks like we will have a lot of games of IG vs SM until I manage to build up my fledging Waaagh into a playable sized force.

Cheers

James
Author:  Freshmetal [ Sat Feb 26, 2005 5:57 pm ]
Post subject:  E:A is dead, long live E:A
Hi,

Makes me wonder if there would've been more players if the army books and their release schedules had been structured better? Probably wouldn't have changed the minds of the veteran players, but it might've helped bring in more new blood (and might've kept the GW bosses a bit happier with the game's re-release).

Possibly:
Rulebook:SM, IG, Orks
Supplement 1:Eldar, Chaos
Supplement 2:Tyranid, Tau, Necron
Supplement 3:OGBM, AMTL

With the minis (re-)released slowly throughout and the sub-lists released online peroidically? I can't help think that the choice of Feral Orks and Siege IG as "major supplement" releases wasn't the best option (don't get me wrong, I love both of these armies) in the circumstances.

Just a thought.

Cheers,
Freshmetal
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