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Ork Landerz

 Post subject: Ork Landerz
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 6:46 pm 
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Hi mates,

1. can the Orks Landz land in the opponets set up zone?

2. can the on board orks , make and engage after landing?

3. can the Landz make FF in the turn where it landed?

Cheers
Mike

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 Post subject: Ork Landerz
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 6:53 pm 
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Assuming I understand question 2, the answers are all "Yes."

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 Post subject: Ork Landerz
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 6:58 pm 
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(maimed @ Oct. 09 2007,18:46)
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1. can the Orks Landz land in the opponets set up zone?

Once a game has begun the "set up zones" are just normal parts of the battlefield and can be travelled through or into by either side; so, yes, an Ork Landa can land there. (Say *that* five times fast!)

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 Post subject: Ork Landerz
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:02 pm 
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(nealhunt @ Oct. 09 2007,18:53)
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Assuming I understand question 2, the answers are all "Yes."

can the Orks "load up in the Landz again" and lanz somewhere else in one turn? and unload in the same turn and attack again?





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 Post subject: Ork Landerz
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:03 pm 
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Aircraft can only load or unload once per turn, it cannot do both.


Actually, that's not true.  An aircraft can load or unload as any other WE.  It's the embarking formation's action that determines whether they can load up.  If they can move to contact with the WE, it can load.  if that's 1 formation of 8 models or 8 formations of one model each, it doesn't matter to the WE.
=====

Maimed:  Really, you need to re-read the rules on WE transports and Aircraft landing.  I'll try to summarize, but I make no promises.  It's pretty fiddly.

A landed aircraft becomes a ground unit.  It's a WE, so all loading and unloading issues are handled as WEs unless noted differently.

There are a lot of things 'noted differently.'

A landing aircraft can either load or unload as part of its landing.  This is a "free" embark or disembark.  Under most circumstances, this means the aircraft lands and the troops/transport either assault or fire (usually assault).

WE transports can be mounted by any units that can move into contact with them, but once mounted, they cannot activate later in the turn (this stops a dual-activation loophole).  With a consolidation move after an assault, the troops can mount but the WE cannot move.  For aircraft, this restriction on movement after consolidation is extended to mean that the aircraft may not disengage in the end phase.

If you want to do multiple air assaults with the same formation or aircraft, there are a few ways to do it.

1)  Air assault, consolidate back on board - this is bad.  You get the assault, but the aircraft is trapped on the board for an entire turn with the troops loaded.

2)  Air assault, leave the troops on the ground, bring another aircraft on to pick them up (landing the aircraft gets the "free" embark move for the troops, even though the troops have activated) - Because it's not a consolidation move, the second aircraft can disengage as normal and return to air assault in the following turn.  Obviously, the downside of this is that it takes 2 aircraft so it's expensive in points.

3)  Air assault, disengage as normal, land/embark on the following turn, air assault again on the third turn. - This is a favorite of Biggles, I believe.  You get the initial air assault.  The ground formation can activate on the second turn.  The aircraft uses the "free" embark to pick them up, and returns for the assault the following turn.  It's a pretty good technique.

4)  Air assault, have a second, separate formation mount up on the aircraft using their move, disengage as normal (it wasn't a consolidation move, so the aircraft can go), return to air assault the following turn. - This can work, but it is tough to pull off.  The second formation has to be in position and it has to move onto the aircraft, which means it cannot fire or assault.  The only way I've thought of to make this work is with a FF-oriented formation.  You air assault a target near the support formation so they can lend FF support to the assault.  The assaulting formation moves off.  The support formation activates and boards the aircraft.  They "lose" the activation but they got to support an assault so it's almost like they got to shoot anyway.  The only real practical means I see to pull this off is with soemthing like Eldar Swooping Hawks that can teleport into position, have decent FF, and can load up even at a reasonable distance.  it should work... in theory... but it's got a lot of moving parts and I've never actually seen anyone do it in a game.


There's no way for an aircraft to "hop" around the board during a turn.  They either disengage in the end phase and come back in as aircraft in subsequent turns, or they sit in place on the ground the entire turn.

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 Post subject: Ork Landerz
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:37 pm 
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(nealhunt @ Oct. 09 2007,21:03)
QUOTE

WOW, thank you. I think I'll keep is simple, in a true Ork maner, no tricky stuff thank you,,

I use the Army Builder to raise my armies and I saw that the Landz have no units that I can raise with it.

1. So would I raise say a Warband and just use the Landz as transport?

2. From what you wrote I can move the units and the Landz as seperate units. Right?

thank you again for all your help.

Cheers
Mike

PS the Orks just over ran a IG full armoured unit( tank/mech inf/ sentanels/ Artillery Co/ etc) 3000 points :)
the Orks got lucky with winning the initive :)

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 Post subject: Ork Landerz
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:44 pm 
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(nealhunt @ Oct. 09 2007,21:03)
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4) ?Air assault, have a second, separate formation mount up on the aircraft using their move, disengage as normal (it wasn't a consolidation move, so the aircraft can go), return to air assault the following turn.

Reading that, I just realized Eldar could do this relatively easily with Hit and Run... move, shoot, move to mount up...  

Hmmm... I may have to try this!

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 Post subject: Ork Landerz
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:11 pm 
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(maimed @ Oct. 09 2007,21:37)
QUOTE
1. So would I raise say a Warband and just use the Landz as transport?

2. From what you wrote I can move the units and the Landz as seperate units. Right?

1.  Yes, exactly.  War Engines, including aircraft, can load other formations.  You just buy them separately and stick them in the transport WEs as you see fit.

One common load for Landas is a Warband with extra Nobz, Boyz/Grots, or Kans to fill the 2 empty slots.  Another common load is 10 bikes (KoS + 2 "extra" bikes or Big Outriders formation for the Speed Freeks).

2.  The WE transport and the formation are treated as a single formation while the formation is loaded.  Once the loaded troops are dismounted, they are treated as separate formations.

As an example, an air assault is essentially a combined assault just as if you had a Commander.  As with a combined assault, that uses up both formations' activation for the turn.  After the assault, however, as long as the troops don't mount back up with the consolidation move, the formations are then treated separately.  Their BMs are separate, they can be targetted (ranged  fire or assault) separately, they activate separately in subsequent turns, etc..

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 Post subject: Ork Landerz
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:39 pm 
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(Chroma @ Oct. 09 2007,21:44)
QUOTE

(nealhunt @ Oct. 09 2007,21:03)
QUOTE
4)  Air assault, have a second, separate formation mount up on the aircraft using their move, disengage as normal (it wasn't a consolidation move, so the aircraft can go), return to air assault the following turn.

Reading that, I just realized Eldar could do this relatively easily with Hit and Run... move, shoot, move to mount up...

The problem is that it's sort of hard to make it useful.  Eldar don't have a lot of ranged fire that can also load up in a Vampire and even less that has the range or mobility to function well with the strategy.  The only ones I can see it working with are:

1)  Swooping Hawks that can be expected to teleport into position to support the air assault, but have no ranged fire for a shoot/move combo.

2)  Dark Reapers that have enough range to choose from a variety of targets with a shoot/move (mount) combo, but probably won't be able to get into position to support the air assault.

You might get lucky and manage a similar combo in other circumstances (maybe someone gets too close to a Wraithgate so a reserve formation could move/shoot/mount) but it's nothing that could be consistently relied upon to work.

Another problem is that the Vampire is relatively fragile for a transport.  It can't exactly brave a ton of flak and 2 air assaults is probably going to be risky.

===

Now that I think about it, Alaitoc Pathfinders would swing a dual-use combo - teleport for support and ranged fire for fire/mount.

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 Post subject: Ork Landerz
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:50 pm 
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Do the Landerz get the +2 for Waaaag during the landing? ( I am a terriable die roller)

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 Post subject: Ork Landerz
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 3:45 pm 
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While not specifically stated I believe they do if it is carrying out an air assault.  They are, after all, fighting in the assault.

And what Ork wouldn't love dropping a huge landa on top of some Space Machines?

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 Post subject: Ork Landerz
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:11 pm 
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(maimed @ Oct. 16 2007,14:50)
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Do the Landerz get the +2 for Waaaag during the landing? ( I am a terriable die roller)

Yes.  Air assaults are a subset of the "Ground Attack" action, and the Waaagh bonus applies to ground attacks.

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 Post subject: Ork Landerz
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:38 am 
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(nealhunt @ Oct. 17 2007,20:11)
QUOTE

(maimed @ Oct. 16 2007,14:50)
QUOTE
Do the Landerz get the +2 for Waaaag during the landing? ( I am a terriable die roller)

Yes. ?Air assaults are a subset of the "Ground Attack" action, and the Waaagh bonus applies to ground attacks.

In the Epic Handbook 2007 Alpha draft 2.0 I read that the Landz only haev one anti tank rocket,, this is a typo or do I still keep my TWO anti tank attacks?

thank you
Mike

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