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Overwatch question
rpr
 Post subject: Overwatch question
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 6:57 pm 
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Simple rule question which we could not find an answer:

If a formation is already in Overwatch from the previous turn,
can it opt not to activate to carry the Overwatch to the next turn, or must it take an action and try to get the overwatch command again?
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nealhunt
 Post subject: Overwatch question
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 10:12 pm 
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Yes, they can stay on OW. No activations are required until they fire on OW or decide to activate.  From 1.10 (emphasis added):

Formations remain on overwatch until they either shoot,
or they undertake a new action in the following turn.
Note that this means that a unit can go into overwatch on
one turn, and not shoot until the following turn. Shooting
in the following turn counts as your action for that turn,
and will stop the formation taking an action later on. If
the formation does not shoot in the following turn then it
may take an action instead of shooting.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Overwatch question
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:11 pm 
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Hmm...

I would say that OW gives an exception to the "no pass on activating" rule.  We've always played it that way.

OTOH, we don't allow "re-OW" as a "stall" activation.  I never really thought about it, but we don't take the "stay on OW" announcement until everything else has activated and you're down to just OW formations that must decide to act or remain on OW.  Looking at it, there seems to be no real rule-based reason to do that.  It's simply the practical point that you usually want to stay on OW as long as possible to force the enemy to work around it.

That approach means that formations remaining on OW effectively reduce the activation count on subsequent turns.

It seems to me that allowing "re-OW" as a stall activation would be more gamey and abusive than leaving OW formations the option of just staying on OW.

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yme-loc
 Post subject: Overwatch question
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:19 am 
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(nealhunt @ Sep. 04 2007,14:11)
QUOTE
It seems to me that allowing "re-OW" as a stall activation would be more gamey and abusive than leaving OW formations the option of just staying on OW.

True but they might fail their role to stay on overwatch and have to take a hold action - loss of concentration and all that.

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Ginger
 Post subject: Overwatch question
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:51 pm 
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Two thoughts

Permanently staying on OW could be uncharacteristic - eg Orcs would be more likely to get itchy feet and want to "go out and bash somfink".

Also, we need to consider the interraction with garrison, given that the revised garrison rule is adopted - is turn 1 counted as the 1st or 2nd turn that the formation has been on OW; Do they need to take an activation or not? (IMO it is the 2nd turn and they do need to activate)

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Lord Inquisitor
 Post subject: Overwatch question
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:07 pm 
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(nealhunt @ Sep. 04 2007,09:11)
QUOTE
Hmm...

I would say that OW gives an exception to the "no pass on activating" rule. ?We've always played it that way.

I see what you are saying, but that isn't implicit in the rules...

OTOH, we don't allow "re-OW" as a "stall" activation.  I never really thought about it, but we don't take the "stay on OW" announcement until everything else has activated and you're down to just OW formations that must decide to act or remain on OW.  Looking at it, there seems to be no real rule-based reason to do that.  It's simply the practical point that you usually want to stay on OW as long as possible to force the enemy to work around it.

That approach means that formations remaining on OW effectively reduce the activation count on subsequent turns.

It seems to me that allowing "re-OW" as a stall activation would be more gamey and abusive than leaving OW formations the option of just staying on OW.

I really don't see the problem of "re-OW" as a stalling motion. After all, you have just wasted an entire turn with that formation and done absolutely nothing (except perhaps influenced your opponent's movements of course). Actually taking an action is usually going to be a risk too - a failed test would result in no OW, rather than just staying on OW.

Put another way, I can go on Overwatch with a formation that's, say, doubled last turn as a "stalling" motion to try and draw you out, and that's perfectly okay. What difference does it make that a formation has had an Overwatch action last turn? Either way, the formation only gets one action this turn and the only difference is you can use up an activation for the risk of losing Overwatch.

In any case, I can't see anything in the rules that suggests that you can't "re-OW" as an action.

Note that I don't actually disagree with this:
Yes, they can stay on OW. No activations are required until they fire on OW or decide to activate.
Seems fine to me, except that they still must activate once per turn as per 1.6.1 if they don't choose to fire before they are forced to activate.

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Ginger
 Post subject: Overwatch question
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:52 pm 
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So a garrisoned formation that starts on OW either has to shoot, or take an activation in turn 1 - sounds good to me.

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Markconz
 Post subject: Overwatch question
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:22 am 
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Personally I can live with either option. Effectively having to roll to 'maintain overwatch alertness' might even add something to the game perhaps.

(Edit - someone remind me what has the UK tourni scene been using?)

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Mephiston
 Post subject: Overwatch question
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:28 am 
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I don't remember this coming up at many tournaments. Personally I've always played it as the formation stays on overwatch from turn to turn without need to activate.
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yme-loc
 Post subject: Overwatch question
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:54 am 
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I almost always play that I have to activate a formation even if its on overwatch (although I have forgotten about those big guns lurking at the back a few times).

But I have in the same game been quite happy for my opponent to play their overwatch stays indefinetly as long as once they get to their final activation they tell me if they are going to stay on overwatch or not.

Personally though I do think the rule as literally taken from the current rule book - ie you have to activate is better.

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