Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 7 of 18
  [ 270 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 ... 18  Next

Ordinatus!
Mojarn Piett
 Post subject: Ordinatus!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2003 8:14 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 7:35 am
Posts: 5455
Location: Finland
Quote (Legion 4 @ 16 2003 Aug.,14:50)
Yes, I'll have to agree, we may agree or disagree, but we usually take it all in stride and no one really flames another poster. ?

However I did threaten to bomb Mojarn in Finland with an ICBM, but it was Primarch's idea! I wanted to use a MOAB! :laugh:

(Editor's note: What is a MOAB? Something, something bomb?)

Bring 'em on! with the population density of Finland you couldn't hit me however hard you tried. And you only get one try before those long range patrolmen I sent come for you... :;):

_________________
I don't know and I let who care. -J.S.
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
primarch
 Post subject: Ordinatus!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2003 2:13 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:46 am
Posts: 27069
Location: Edmond, Oklahoma USA
Hi!

Not me. If I believed that the thread was a rant about how bad I was doing and I believed I was doing a good job, I would think it would be a waste of my time to read the thread.
From PG's point of view why would he believe the thread would offer anything other then negative rants with little value? Why would he think this was where he could find true constructive critisism?
No, I think if I were him I would have made the same assumptions and choices. Remember his preceptions of both some members of this board and himself would be driving his choices not your motives.


I agree. His opinion on some of the forum members (like little 'ol me for example...) will affect his perception and thus nullify any need to read it or learn from it. This is the sort of thing you comment on and move on, I think the trench lines are pretty well set on this issue.

I usually think of you as the rabblerouser, but you're probably right on this one.


I definitely am, but I am also VERY practical. I saw no benefit from informing this and his reply is what I expected. I rarely waste efforts on things I know will bear no fruit.

On the other hand I think the importance of you mentioning it was more on the lines that YOU, as a person, can also feel better that you gave it your "best." That's important too, so don't consider it a total loss.

You're a very kind, courteous soul, Maksim, and your attention to "smoothing" relationships is commendable. Never lose that drive.

Besides we have enough "Primarchs" running around... :;):

Primarch.

_________________
Primarch


The Primarchload
Magnetized Titans Tutorial
Net Epic Gold
Heresy Rules


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
MaksimSmelchak
 Post subject: Ordinatus!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2003 3:16 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 4:43 pm
Posts: 7258
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Dafrca,

Not me. If I believed that the thread was a rant about how bad I was doing and I believed I was doing a good job, I would think it would be a waste of my time to read the thread.


I can see the line of thought, but it doesn't make much sense to me.

It's almost like he believes that the whole world is arrayed against him. The last time I remmber that was from music albums in the 1970's and 1980's.

From PG's point of view why would he believe the thread would offer anything other then negative rants with little value? Why would he think this was where he could find true constructive critisism?


I keep thinking because I've bothered to take the time to write him that he'd pay some attention to what I am saying.

His E-mails are pretty transparent. He's usually angry whenever I question him and whenever the letters are lighter, he wants to play around and make jokes. The letters are getting better and he is still writing if not very small replies.

I know it's S.O.P. (Standard Operating Procedure), but I'd think for someone that deals out so much criticism on the E-A Playtest Boards that he'd be able to take a little more himself.

No, I think if I were him I would have made the same assumptions and choices. Remember his perceptions of both some members of this board and himself would be driving his choices not your motives.

I guess you're right.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

_________________
6mm Sci-fi:
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/6mm ... nWarGames/
My Personal Blog:
http://6mm-minis.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
MaksimSmelchak
 Post subject: Ordinatus!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2003 3:21 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 4:43 pm
Posts: 7258
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Primarch,

I agree. His opinion on some of the forum members (like little 'ol me for example...) will affect his perception and thus nullify any need to read it or learn from it. This is the sort of thing you comment on and move on, I think the trench lines are pretty well set on this issue.


Well, the trench lines may be set, but they wouldn't be hard to change. I've been receiving a lot of letters from members who would be happy to see the moderatorship change.

I think I could very easily get a majority of active members to sign a petition asking for changes.

On the other hand I think the importance of you mentioning it was more on the lines that YOU, as a person, can also feel better that you gave it your "best." That's important too, so don't consider it a total loss.


Investing in people is more risky than the stock market! :p

You're a very kind, courteous soul, Maksim, and your attention to "smoothing" relationships is commendable. Never lose that drive.

Thanks for the compliment.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

_________________
6mm Sci-fi:
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/6mm ... nWarGames/
My Personal Blog:
http://6mm-minis.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Legion 4
 Post subject: Ordinatus!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2003 4:22 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm
Posts: 36989
Location: Ohio - USA
Well Mojarn, you may not get hit by an ICBM or MOAB, but, thanks to Dafrca, everyone knows what a MOAB is! :D ?

And Maksim, you have a tendency to be the "voice of reason"... ?I'd let the P/G thing die out... :;):

_________________
Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
dafrca
 Post subject: Ordinatus!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2003 5:08 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 6:02 pm
Posts: 10956
Location: Burbank, CA, USA
Quote (MaksimSmelchak @ 18 2003 Aug.,07:16)
Not me. If I believed that the thread was a rant about how bad I was doing and I believed I was doing a good job, I would think it would be a waste of my time to read the thread.


I can see the line of thought, but it doesn't make much sense to me.

[snip]

From PG's point of view why would he believe the thread would offer anything other then negative rants with little value? Why would he think this was where he could find true constructive critisism?


I keep thinking because I've bothered to take the time to write him that he'd pay some attention to what I am saying.


Maksim,

It is not as easy as he thinks the world is against him.

Look at it from this angle:

- Not to be mean, but who asked PG to step down in the last week?

- Which board has the most members who have disagreed with PG in the last few months?

- Where is the largest concentration of people who have posted disagreement with the playtest?

Now with those answers in mind, would you really trust this board to offer you critisism that would help make you a better person?

I will say again, your motives may be good, but it is not your motives that PG will use to make his choices.

It would be best if you let it drop.

Dafrca.

_________________
"Every Man is a But Spark in the Darkness"
              - Cities of Death, page 59

Come fight me, if you dare...... http://dd-janks.mybrute.com


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
primarch
 Post subject: Ordinatus!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2003 6:44 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:46 am
Posts: 27069
Location: Edmond, Oklahoma USA
Hi!

Well, the trench lines may be set, but they wouldn't be hard to change. I've been receiving a lot of letters from members who would be happy to see the moderatorship change.
I think I could very easily get a majority of active members to sign a petition asking for changes.


By "trenches," I meant he has his opinion and you and others have theirs. I don't think he pretty much "cares" about those opinions because he views them as hostile with no merit behind them. SO, his position may be "set" or "entrenched."

Now, if you indeed think you can have a change of moderator due to majority support, then do it, since I don't view the present positions as changing for the better.

A word of advice though, if a change of moderator is accepted, you may need to "put your money where your mouth is" and take up moderatorship on yourself because the first thing they'll ask you is "who" will do it if the current one is not liked. So before you go that route be sure you and the group that backs the proposal is in agreement before any action is taken. Otherwise you may find youself in a even greater mess.

I can see the line of thought, but it doesn't make much sense to me.
It's almost like he believes that the whole world is arrayed against him. The last time I remmber that was from music albums in the 1970's and 1980's.


Perhaps indeed that may be his view, since my negative interactions with him had me accused of many "conspiracies" and such. It may just be his way of looking at things. So I doubt any positive spin you may bring, regardless of your intentions will be well received.

Like I said before, just back off. It's not worth it. If you want him changed as moderator, then go through the motions, if not, just ignore the whole thing.

The bottom line is that the level of "attitude" may be lessened,
but not eliminated. You'll just have to live with that.

Primarch.

_________________
Primarch


The Primarchload
Magnetized Titans Tutorial
Net Epic Gold
Heresy Rules


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Gandalf the Grey
 Post subject: Ordinatus!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2003 7:11 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2003 4:23 pm
Posts: 789
Location: Tampa, Florida
Just email Jervis at jervisj@games-workshop.com and tell him you don't like what has been going on.  I did.

I vote for Maksim as mod especially since he corrects my grammar!

_________________
Please check out my website: http://www.system17.com
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
nealhunt
 Post subject: Ordinatus!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2003 7:33 pm 
Purestrain
Purestrain

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
Wow. Lots to take in.

Legion-4,
>> There are few men (or women), if any on this site or others, who have lead an Air Assault Rifle Platoon in the jungle...


I led a USMC Weapons Platoon through the Panamanian jungle. Does that count? ???? ?

We should trade war stories some time.

Gandalf,
>> A day after I mentioned here that I was now Gandalf the White in the Warhammer Society forum, I got kicked out again.


That's just lame. It might be possible that they have a program which checks for matching info, and you got caught.

For the record, I have no ill will towards you, either, Gandalf.

----------------------------------------

Regarding PG:

The guy's making a legitimate effort. He and I exchanged a series of E-mails over several days the last time this topic came up (several weeks ago) and I posted that I was unhappy with his moderating. As many of you know, he is the only person on the playtest board I have really butted heads with, and I have no reason to cut him any slack.

He is well aware of the issues, and I can tell a difference in his approach since then that I consider to be an improvement. For example, he now usually tries to make a softer, more complete statement about topic drift, rather than a pronouncement from on high. He is also more likely to let a subject drop as long as there is a minimum level of improvement. Both of those are suggestions that I specifically mentioned in our correspondence, so he obviously _is_ willing to listen to constructive criticism.

I think he has a way to go. His posts as moderator are still grating sometimes, and are still too authoritative, but I am convinced that this remains unintentional. It seems that his perceptions (particularly in regards to Gandalf) are still colored by personal issues, but I think he is making an effort to make his moderator posts non-personal.

In any case, we're stuck for now. Hopefully, you guys will take my word for it that he is trying and take that into account before being offended.

Also, despite his abrasiveness in his PG persona, he has come up with a number of good suggestions, and I usually find his arguments to be solid from a logical standpoint, although sometimes not compelling. To that extent, I would say he is a valuable playtester.

_________________
Neal


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Gandalf the Grey
 Post subject: Ordinatus!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2003 7:47 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2003 4:23 pm
Posts: 789
Location: Tampa, Florida
Well, he just moved my post back to the general discussion area so maybe he is making an effort.

_________________
Please check out my website: http://www.system17.com
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Gandalf the Grey
 Post subject: Ordinatus!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2003 8:21 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2003 4:23 pm
Posts: 789
Location: Tampa, Florida
I take that back. Now he's moved it again, as well as others.  What the hell is he doing?

_________________
Please check out my website: http://www.system17.com
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
primarch
 Post subject: Ordinatus!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2003 10:42 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:46 am
Posts: 27069
Location: Edmond, Oklahoma USA
Hi!

:D Gandalf, I think PG be one happy dude if you dropped off the face of the earth, or at least the playtest forum!  :D

Its like watching a heavyweight fight, you never know when the knockout punch is coming.

Primarch

_________________
Primarch


The Primarchload
Magnetized Titans Tutorial
Net Epic Gold
Heresy Rules
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
MaksimSmelchak
 Post subject: Ordinatus!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 12:37 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 4:43 pm
Posts: 7258
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Neal,

Regarding PG:
The guy's making a legitimate effort. He and I exchanged a series of E-mails over several days the last time this topic came up (several weeks ago) and I posted that I was unhappy with his moderating.


Yes. He has received quite a few E-mails over the last few days. Both Dafrca and I have sent him E-mails and several other members of the forum have written me either having outright said they have written him, would like to, or have in the past.

As many of you know, he is the only person on the playtest board I have really butted heads with, and I have no reason to cut him any slack.


There are quite a few people who can say that PG is the only person they've butted heads with on the E-A Playtest Boards.

He is well aware of the issues, and I can tell a difference in his approach since then that I consider to be an improvement. For example, he now usually tries to make a softer, more complete statement about topic drift, rather than a pronouncement from on high. He is also more likely to let a subject drop as long as there is a minimum level of improvement.

I've noticed an improvement, but it's slow and my patience is close to gone. He's still jerking a lot of strings.

Both of those are suggestions that I specifically mentioned in our correspondence, so he obviously _is_ willing to listen to constructive criticism.

I think he is willing to listen to constructive criticism, but even if the constructive criticism is very gentle, he has a hard time taking it. I was forward with mine, but not cruel and he's having diffiuculty even responding.

I'd much rther have a moderator that listens without chips on his shoulder or whatever it is that makes PG so unhappy.

I think he has a way to go.

I agree. Unless he makes a very serious change quickly, I don't want to wait for him to become "kinder and gentler."

His posts as moderator are still grating sometimes, and are still too authoritative, but I am convinced that this remains unintentional.

I'm not sure if intentions are the crux of the issue. I too think that PG's "grating" is a part of his character and life experiences, but I still don't want that negativity to be a guiding part of the forum.

I've been talking with him and I think he's a decent guy once you get beyond the issues.

It seems that his perceptions (particularly in regards to Gandalf) are still colored by personal issues, but I think he is making an effort to make his moderator posts non-personal.

Because he lets his perceptions be colored by personal iossues, he moderates in a very biased and partial way. If you're not in the gang, that changes the rules for you. I'm getting a little tired of it and would like to see everyone get a fair shake.

In any case, we're stuck for now. Hopefully, you guys will take my word for it that he is trying and take that into account before being offended.

I don't think we're stuck. I think that Jervis will listen to us on this matter if we present it to him.

Take Gandalf for instance, under the right conditions, he's really mellowed out. Under the right leadership, we can see the best in people brought out.

Also, despite his abrasiveness in his PG persona, he has come up with a number of good suggestions, and I usually find his arguments to be solid from a logical standpoint, although sometimes not compelling. To that extent, I would say he is a valuable playtester.

I don't think the guy should leave the forums and agree that he's a good playtester. I like many of his suggestions as well. I just don't think he should be moderator if his behavioral patterns persist in current form.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

_________________
6mm Sci-fi:
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/6mm ... nWarGames/
My Personal Blog:
http://6mm-minis.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
MaksimSmelchak
 Post subject: Ordinatus!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:06 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 4:43 pm
Posts: 7258
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Dafrca,

It is not as easy as he thinks the world is against him.


OK.

Look at it from this angle:
- Not to be mean, but who asked PG to step down in the last week?


I didn't ask him to step down, I suggested that if he meant all the things about the board being a mess and that if the moderatorship was giving him stress that stepping down would be in his best interest. Of course, that's more or less the same thing.

Did you ask him to step down as well?

- Which board has the most members who have disagreed with PG in the last few months?

I'd put even money that this would be that board. Of course, part of the reason that we're the largest board is that not much of the community is organized. I am 100% sure that there are more than we few who have difficulties. One of the phenomena that I've observed is how many new members gravitate to this board from the Official E-A Playtest Boards.

- Where is the largest concentration of people who have posted disagreement with the playtest?

I'd put even money that this would be that board AGAIN.

Now with those answers in mind, would you really trust this board to offer you critisism that would help make you a better person?

I would trust PG to give me criticism or, maybe I should say that I'd listen to him and fully hear him out if he had something to say to me. Of course, I'm not him either. I'm pretty mellow and most things just don't bother me anymore.

I will say again, your motives may be good, but it is not your motives that PG will use to make his choices.

OK. Understood.

It would be best if you let it drop.

I'm willing to let the conversation drop, but the gauling aggressive moderatorship is a pain.

Do you want the boards to continue as is?

I have been living with it and could indefinitely, but it does diminish an otherwise pleasant experience.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

_________________
6mm Sci-fi:
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/6mm ... nWarGames/
My Personal Blog:
http://6mm-minis.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
MaksimSmelchak
 Post subject: Ordinatus!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:08 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 4:43 pm
Posts: 7258
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Primarch,

Now, if you indeed think you can have a change of moderator due to majority support, then do it, since I don't view the present positions as changing for the better.


The main thing keeping me from pushing to see change is PG. The guy's obviously had some pretty negative life experiences and I think he'd take it pretty hard if he was removed. I'd rather see him either make significant changes or leave in a peaceful manner. Yes, I know I'm full fo wishful thinking. I'd rather the guy had someone give him a chance and treat him with some consideration.

A word of advice though, if a change of moderator is accepted, you may need to "put your money where your mouth is" and take up moderatorship on yourself because the first thing they'll ask you is "who" will do it if the current one is not liked. So before you go that route be sure you and the group that backs the proposal is in agreement before any action is taken. Otherwise you may find youself in a even greater mess.


I'm willing to take over the moderatorship, but would rather someone else did since if I take over, it would probably be a personal afront to him.

Like I said before, just back off. It's not worth it. If you want him changed as moderator, then go through the motions, if not, just ignore the whole thing.

You're probably right. I'm just not sure if I want to be a member of the forums if we get PG in full "abrasive" form. In real life, I give such people a wide berth every time they get that way.

The bottom line is that the level of "attitude" may be lessened, but not eliminated. You'll just have to live with that.

I don't expect him to stop being himself, but I do expect him to treat others with the same civility he would like for himself.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

_________________
6mm Sci-fi:
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/6mm ... nWarGames/
My Personal Blog:
http://6mm-minis.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
  Print view Previous topic | Next topic 
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 7 of 18
  [ 270 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 ... 18  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 24 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net