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THE Gargant Discussion

 Post subject: THE Gargant Discussion
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2003 12:15 am 
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Hi!

Well, its been a long time since I took a basic science that covered something like this, but the important thing is that now I know where it comes from.

All knowledge is good! :)

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 Post subject: THE Gargant Discussion
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:23 am 
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Dafrca,

I only have the one that is "two" URLs back:
http://uk.games-workshop.com/40kuniv....ult.asp
But it seems to work and the threads seem to still be there. Just locked so it is a referance place only. I do not know how much longer it will work though.


Thanks for the URL to the old playtest boards.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

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 Post subject: THE Gargant Discussion
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2003 4:27 am 
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Quote (MaksimSmelchak @ 11 2003 Aug.,17:23)
Dafrca,

I only have the one that is "two" URLs back:
http://uk.games-workshop.com/40kuniv....ult.asp
But it seems to work and the threads seem to still be there. Just locked so it is a referance place only. I do not know how much longer it will work though.


Thanks for the URL to the old playtest boards.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

You are welcome.

By the way, anyone who wants to pull information down should do it soon, I do not know how often it will be up.

dafrca

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 Post subject: THE Gargant Discussion
PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2003 5:14 am 
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Hey Guys,

Has anyone thought about building Steam Gargantz for the new Feral Orks list yet?

It seems to me that building up enough power for a Zapp Gun might be hard using steam power...  :oo

I'm also wondering whether the Orks are using polluting steam technology or nonpolluting... :-:

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 Post subject: THE Gargant Discussion
PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2003 3:01 pm 
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Quote (MaksimSmelchak @ 21 2003 Aug.,05:14)
I'm also wondering whether the Orks are using polluting steam technology or nonpolluting...

somehow I don't think Orks are too bothered about the greenhouse effect or the depletion of the ozone layer!!!

:D

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 Post subject: THE Gargant Discussion
PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2003 8:30 pm 
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Hi!

I don't think Orks would be "Earth" friendly, they like killing and Squig beer, that's it!

No self respecting Ork would recycle... :p

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 Post subject: THE Gargant Discussion
PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2003 9:15 pm 
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Jimbo and Primarch,

I don't think Orks would be "Earth" friendly, they like killing and Squig beer, that's it!  


I think that underneath the new fluff that the Orks are a "fungal" life form is some neat fluff with some interesting ramifications.

Such as the Orks have their own self-contained TRAVELING ecosystem. This can effectively mean that Orks slowly coopt and transform other environments into their ideal environment. It's Terraforming (Maybe Orkiforming or K'rorkiforming?) without any effort.

Think about it! If Orks need a damp turgid place to grow mew Orks, what place could be better than a junkyard or a battlefield littered with the wrecks and carcasses of the slain and destroyed? Gorka-Morka, anyone?

No self-respecting Ork would recycle...


They may not conscientiously recycle, but I think they do it out of habit and instinct. Between Squigs, which eat practically anything and Orks, which aren't much pickier (the green skin is chlorform, right?), Orks can make any environment their own.

Thoughts of how the ecosystem could hypothetically work are fascinating. A small closed but self-containing ecosystem could be a mean invention.

In many regards, the Orks are much more impressive than the Tyranids.

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 Post subject: THE Gargant Discussion
PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2003 10:29 pm 
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Hi!

That's an interesting line of thought and it's quite in keeping with the old fluff.

For those who have read the ol "Ere We Go" Ork book back in the RT days, it was a very entertaining book that went into how Orks actually live.

I found it interesting that their most important communal activity was the "common cesspool" where Orks would congregate not only to release bodily waste, but to talk and interact socially. Even more interesting, the most ferocious Sqiggs come from this cesspool besides a whole host of drugs, beneficial and otherwise. It was quite an ecosystem.

Orks certainly do have many plant-like features, they reproduce like simple fungi by "budding" and their green color may very well be some sort of chlorophyll derivative.

Even their psycological make-up is quite interesting because they like speed because it directly stimulates their pleasure centers and the same applies for loud noises and the rush of battle. This makes for a successful warrior race. Their only draw-back is the lack of organized research to improve their technology, but to adapt they are consumate "mimick-ers" able to assimilate technology quite well.

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 Post subject: THE Gargant Discussion
PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2003 5:53 am 
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On the E-A playtest boards, we have been discussing Steam Gargantz, the Feral Ork equivalent to either a Gargant, a Stompa, or both of them!

Here are some ideas for Steam Gargant and Feral Ork proxies:

- Pinnacle Games Great Rail Wars Automatons:
- GRW1505 Automatons (3 poses) $14.95 (Six figures)
Instant Stompas or SupaStompas! These are perfect mechanical monstrosities. Add an Orky arm or two and you're in business. I really like these figures!  :p

http://jeffvalentstudios.com/deadlandsgrw.htm
http://home.att.net/~mmdeforrest/deadla ... /minis.htm

-    GRW1533 Steam Turtles $12.95 (5 figures)
These little buggers have perfect Ork style and with a little conversion would probable make great Ork armour: battlewagunz, battlefortesses, Wrecka Trukkz, Ork snax wagunz. etc.. I recommend using them as Battlefortresses after modifying them a little bit. To see the photo of them, go to the URL I typed and scroll down the new releases until you the Steam Turtles. They're not in the regular catalogue yet.

http://www.jeffvalentstudios.com/

- GRW1261 Battle Suit $19.95
This is one giant robot and is probably about 6 inches or more in height (I didn't measure it). The design is based on an actual proposition for the USMC around the turn of the last century. The steampunk style definitely lends itself to Orky engineering, but I don't know what I would class this monster as... maybe a Mega Gargant? Or a Steam Gargant?

http://jeffvalentstudios.com/deadlandsgrw.htm

- SJG Games - GURPS Minis - Steampunk:
http://www.sjgames.com/miniatures/gurps/

- Armorcast Steam Bots:
http://www.armorcast.com/terraform/SteamBots.html

Armorcast also has a pack of close combat weapons for their steam bots that look particularly Orky.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

P.S.
Here are some other Deadlands galleries:

- http://greywolf.critter.net/gallery/dea ... allery.htm

- http://home.att.net/~mmdeforrest/deadlands/main.htm

-  http://www.apptechnc.net/~techromancer/rwarrior.htm

And the Deadlands web ring:

- http://q.webring.com/hub?sid=&ring=dead ... g&id=&list

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 Post subject: THE Gargant Discussion
PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2003 3:26 pm 
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Neat stuff! ?

But as tempting as a Steam Gargant is for the artist-driven G/W & F/W, I wouldn't be surprised if we see them produce one or two... :;):

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 Post subject: THE Gargant Discussion
PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2003 5:24 pm 
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Hi!

Those proxies look great, Maksim! With some minor conversion work, I think that they would definitely capture that "Orky" feel for weird steam-driven machines.

Do you have any rules for Steam Gargantz, or are you using the Epic-A ones for Steam Gargants?

Primarch.

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 Post subject: THE Gargant Discussion
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2003 3:04 am 
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Primarch,

Do you have any rules for Steam Gargantz, or are you using the Epic-A ones for Steam Gargants?


I am using the E-A rules although at Conquest, we will be playing Epic-40k.  :;):

In "real life", I have been mostly playing the E-A Playtest rules, but wuld like to play a little NetEpic. :)  

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 Post subject: THE Gargant Discussion
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2003 4:04 am 
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Hi!

Tell you what, you come up with a good proxy conversions and I'll make some NetEpic rules for it.

It's been a while since I wrote some rules.

Primarch.

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 Post subject: THE Gargant Discussion
PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2003 4:05 pm 
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Anyone else notice this:

If what you?ve read has whetted your appetite for the new rules then you can download a playtest version of the rules from the Epic Armageddon playtesters vault at www.epic-battles.com.

Another URL change?  :L

It does not work yet, I checked.

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 Post subject: THE Gargant Discussion
PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 6:54 pm 
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Greetings again!

As promised, here's a battle report for the game we fought last Friday. It's a bit on the long side and somewhat late, though - couldn't resist the temptation to write some fluff pieces as well...the fluff pieces are on italics, so you can skip if you want!

Forces involved:

Marines:
3 Marine Tactical Detachments (6 Tactical stands, 3 Rhinos):
Alexandria - With Captain Niem commanding
Berlin - With Hero, Lieutenant Kargos (used stats for a chaplain)
Cairo - Lieutenant Harren (no specials)
2 Land Raider Detachments (4 'Raiders each):
Damascus - Lieutenant Coyl commanding
Elysium - Lieutenant Laacso
1 Land Speeder Squadron (5 standard 'Speeders):
Spearhead - Lieutenant Brand commanding

Guard:
2 Leman Russ Tank Companies with Vanquisher CMD tanks:
"Red"
"White"
1 Superheavy Company:
3 Shadowsword, 1 Baneblade

Without further ado, I present thee the Battle of Black Forest (As Later Told To The Press By Someone Who Was There). Enjoy, and comment!

+++


=I=

+++ CRYPTO-LOGOS MESSAGE
+++ ENCRYPTION LEVEL GRANITE
+++ TIME STAMP 782.810M41
+++ FOR =I= USE ONLY
+++ HERETICAL USE CARRIES GRAVE CONSEQUENCES

+++ MSG BEGINS +++ MSG BEGINS +++ MSG BEGINS +++

FROM: Archivist-Servitor XV118-13, Ordo Hereticus Historium
TO: Lord Inquisitor Gaemann
RE: Archive Request ?KARGOS? ?EARLY YEARS? ?PRE-HERESY?

My lord;

At your request, I present the earliest surviving account of the traitor Kargos of the World Eaters, also known as the ?Bloodspitter?. Apparently compiled before the Great Treason, the misguided author presents the Traitor and the Heretic in a favourable light ? may the Eternal Emperor have mercy upon his soul! Misguided as it may be, however, this text may help Your Excellency to understand this wretched oath breaker and, the Emperor willing, end his heresies for once and for all.

One cannot but wonder what caused such a warrior to fall from the Emperor?s Grace, but it is not mine to make a judgement ? my life is to serve the sword and the shield of the Emperor.

Yours very obediently,

Archivist-Servitor XV118-13

NOTE: Author subjected to standard psycho-erasure pattern. Telepathica probe indicates no remaining traces of heretical knowledge. =I=


+++

HISTORICAL BACKGROUND: During the Great Crusade, as the Emperor?s legions raced outwards from the Holy Terra, one of the main problems was always the replacement of casualties incurred in heavy fighting against those resisting the rule of the Imperium. Various Space Marine Legions solved the problem in different ways; some set up logistical chains to provide trained recruits from their home world, others recruited potential Marines from a multitude of worlds and trained them in worlds near war zones. Such was the way of the Legio World Eaters. Having a preference for bloody assaults, the World Eaters had to accept the attendant high casualty rate and to compensate for it. After basic training and accelerated gene-seed implantation, recruits from a multitude of worlds were usually trained in recently ?pacified? planets to incorporate them in combat units led by selected veterans. Then whole units were shipped as replacements to war zones across the Eastern Fringe.

Training was always tough and realistic, but it was often viewed as little more than a punishment by veteran World Eaters assigned as instructors and leaders ? being away from combat while their comrades fought and died was an affront to their martial pride. However, in some occasions the training got more realistic than they had anticipated?

The world of Fulda Gap had been pacified by a combined Imperial Army and World Eater assault about five years ago. Since that time, most of the world had been ruled over by an ambitious Imperial Army commander, General Buhallin.

Apparently not content being ?only? the Imperial Commandant, he had manipulated his Army units with promises of continuous peace and prosperity if only they were able to cast the yoke of the Emperor?s Rule from their shoulders. Eager not to continue the bloody Great Crusade, the mass of the Army followed when in a public speech he declared the world an independent principality, ruled by himself, and called all ?revolutionary elements? to join in a fight against ?the imperialistic aggressor?. In the following morning 0530 Local Time, massed armour of the 3rd Stygian Guards Shock Regiment crossed the ?Crimson Line?, the boundary separating major manufacturing centers and spaceports directly under control of Adeptus Terra from the rest of the continent.

At that time, the only loyal forces on planet were several World Eater training garrisons located near the major spaceport of Brome Haven and manufacturing centre of Sax. Being disinterested in local politics and oblivious to the mood of the populace, the initial uprising took the Adeptus Astartes by surprise. Recovering quickly, however, the training companies eagerly sallied out from their garrisons to do battle against the oncoming tank hordes, in a desperate attempt to slow down the enemy and buy time for reinforcements to arrive from off-world. To that end, it was imperative that the Brome Haven spaceport did not fall and the factories of Sax kept pouring out munitions and equipment for the outnumbered loyalists.

Near the Thyme Plains, about 25 kilometres from the Crimson Line, Company A from the 11th Training Cohort Legiones Astartes World Eaters was already in manoeuvres when the rebel forces started pouring over the border. Reacting quickly to an exercise turned real, Brother-Captain Niem ordered his troops to race for positions in a sparsely forested ridgeline overlooking so-called ?Black Forest Highway?, a minor east-west road leading to major crossroads town of Bruck.

Anticipating the enemy?s southern flank would try to reach Bruck as soon as possible, he was determined to establish a blocking position in ruins of an ancient Black Forest Citadel and make the once brothers-in-arms to pay for their treachery. As his Company approached the ridgeline, orbital augurs transmitted reports that enemy tank battalion had already detached from the main force and was heading for the very same positions he intended to occupy. The race was on!

?Alexandria One-Zero, Spearhead Six-One, enemy tanks approaching, praise the Warmaster! Two companies and several superheavies ?? Spearhead Six-One requesting permission to engage!?

?Negative Spearhead ? return to rally point, we need you here, and praise the Emperor also.? Brother-Captain Niem cut off the commlink without bothering to hear the Land Speeder squadron leader acknowledge his order. He knew they would obey, for they were World Eater Space Marines, were they not?

Turning his imposing bulk to his assembled subordinates, he looked deeply into each other in turn. Not one flinched from his gaze, and that pleased him, for he had feared that this easy training assignment might turn even a Space Marine weak and cowardly, not fitting to be the Emperor?s finest. Here they were, about to do battle with men they had fought alongside only few short years ago, men they had considered allies only several hours before, and the only emotions Niem could read from his Lieutenant?s faces were those of eager anticipation and righteous fury.

?This is it, then. Spearhead confirms the orbital augurs ? it seems that an enemy force of two Medium Tank Companies and one Breakthrough Company is coming for us. We all know what we must do, and that we will ? embark your vehicles, take up your positions, sanctify your equipment, kindle the fires of battle in your hearts and let no traitor pass! Remind your men that we are the Emperor?s Sword and only the fires of War can temper us. For the Emperor, for the Warmaster Horus, for the Primarch Angron, for we are the World Eaters!?
?World Eaters!?, the assembled detachment leaders replied in unison, saluting their Captain and hurrying to their vehicles.


TURN ONE:

While Brother-Captain Niem and his detachment leaders were finalizing their battle plans, the rebel forces had already made theirs. The battalion commander had no direct access to orbital augurs, and did not know where exactly the anticipated ambush would be located. Deploying his three companies in a long battle line, he intended to comb the ridgeline until he located the elusive enemy. Two medium tank companies would climb the gently sloping hill on both east and west sides of the Black Forest and secure the Citadel; meanwhile his Breakthrough Tank Company would remain in the centre and a little behind for reserve and support should the Marines choose to fight here.

With Land Speeders screening, the A Company crested the ridge just east of the Citadel. Preferring not to split his forces, Brother-Captain Niem was planning to take on the eastern wing of the enemy forces first, and leave just a single detachment to block the rest of the enemy from entering the fray through the Black Forest. With only eight Land Raiders and a meagre amount of anti-tank weaponry, he knew that he could ill afford long-range duels even with tank companies, let alone with super-heavy titan killers he knew his Marines would be facing. This left a gamble for his only viable option: Niem counted on the weakness of tanks in close combat against determined Space Marines, and the old hedgerows on the east slope offered at least some concealment for their approach.


With forces set and after some abysmal dice rolling on my part, the Guard won the strategy roll and chose to move first. Unopposed ?White? Company on the western flank march moved towards the ridgeline, managing to reach the Black Forest Highway roughly on the middle of the board. In an attempt to stop them from flanking my forces, I double moved Tactical Detachment Berlin (under command of Brother Lieutenant Kargos) to the southern edge of the Black Forest, immediately disgorging the Marines. The opponent tried to wake up his superheavies, but to no avail as he failed the initiative test, and they slowly lumbered towards eastern flank from their centre position. Land Raiders from Assault Tank Detachment Damascus in the east moved forward, coming under ineffective fire from the ?Red? Company. As an answer, Assault Tank Detachment Elysium moves to firing positions and lets rip with lascannon at extreme range, causing three hits but failing to take out any of the Leman Russes, their sturdy construction saving their crews from being incinerated in a fireball of oil, gunpowder and flesh. With all three Guard detachments having moved, the remaining Marines advance in cover of the hedgerows. In the end phase, all formations rally and the few blast markers accumulated during the turn are removed.

TURN 2:

Brother Lieutenant Kargos did not need a glance to his augur uplink to see where the enemy was massing. A thick plume of dust was visible now, about two kilometres from the ridgeline his platoon was about to crest. A chilly wind spread the plume, smearing it to an ugly smudge on the blue-white stained glass of clear autumn sky. Same wind was blowing on Kargos?s face, amplified by the rapid movement of his Rhino, but he did not feel the cold.

How had he yearned for that sensation in the years of combat in fully enclosed environment of his power armour, in the tunnels of the hive cities, in cold depths of space and on the weird alien worlds! This was life, having a steed of iron roaring underneath, the sky blue, clear and beautiful above, and feeling the touch of the wind on his face and hair as he was about to do battle against his Emperor?s enemies ? against his enemies. And Lord of Battles willing, today he would reap great honour in the name of his Legion, he thought with a smile born of total confidence in himself and his superiors.

With that thought, he woke from his reveries, switching his comm-bead to the platoon channel.
?Squad leaders, we're going to turn on the armour?s camouflage, but wait until we are clear of the ridge ? no sense to keep those renegades from seeing with their own eyes, that their death is here!?

To his right, from the other side of the Citadel, he could already hear sounds of battle. Many would meet the Warrior?s fate today.



This time I did win the strategy roll by clear numbers. The first action went very obviously for the Detachment Damascus Land Raiders, who sustained fire on the Red Coy Leman Russes, but causing no damage. I retained the initiative and advanced Detachment Elysium to firing range, but again their lascannon fired in vain. Curse those Leman Russes and their thick armour! Fearing the worst, I had to give up the initiative. The Red Coy falls back to get out of Elysium?s range, takes firing positions, lets loose with battle cannon and lascannon, and in a few seconds Brother Lieutenant Coyl?s and Sergeant Amos?s Land Raiders are reduced to flaming wrecks. The first blood goes to the enemy, not a good sign!

Almost desperate to score some kills, I move the Land Speeders behind the Red Coy, as with their short-ranged weapons only one Speeder would have been in range to do a pop-up attack. Not a wise move, as it turns out soon, but blasting with their multi-meltas with the benefit of crossfire to the Land Raiders, they manage to blow up one Russ and cheers can be heard from across the World Eater battle line.
Meanwhile, White Coy forms into a column and advances towards Lieutenant Kargos?s blocking positions, firing on the move. One battlecannon round explodes in the tree line near Kargos himself and a lascannon beam probes a Rhino left in an exposed position, but plasteel and ceramite armour save the day for both. His troopers return fire with pinpoint precision, destroying one tank and giving me at least some reason to smile.

In the centre, Captain Niem leads his troops to the edge of the hedgerows and shouts orders for his missile launchers, which open fire but only manage to put a single blast marker on Red Coy.

There is vengeance in the air as the superheavies roll forward, and soon the unlucky Land Speeders feel the power of three Shadowswords. Baneblade fails to cause any damage, but, unsurprisingly, Shadowswords turn three Speeders into balls of superheated steam, quite appropriately breaking the formation. The remaining two retreat uphill, out of sight from the monsters lurking behind the woods. To that I have little to say, except to order the remaining Tactical Detachment Cairo to break out the melta-bombs and prepare for an assault. To that end, they move up on the road on other side of the hedgerows, dismount and fire at Red Coy, causing a hit which is (I see a trend here) saved.

In the end phase, I manage to rally all formations, and so does the opponent. Some blast markers are left in Speeder, Damascus and Red Coy formations. (Forgot to use the Red Coy?s Commissar?s ?Leader? Special ability)

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