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Epic Supplements

 Post subject: Epic Supplements
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:03 pm 
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Tau first.  The range is already (mostly) available from FW.

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 Post subject: Epic Supplements
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:07 pm 
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Interesting things happen when one goes hunting.  First off there does not appear to be even the frame work for a Cadian Army List.


I've got a printed copy of an early Cadian list somewhere. I think it was written shortly after the main E:A rulebook was finished (Possibly even earlier) and does indeed feature kasrkin, whiteshields etc. Wherther or not I still have the world file somewhere is another question but I'll have a look around in my old backup cds...

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 Post subject: Epic Supplements
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:24 pm 
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I suppose this should have been in its own thread but here we go. Sorry about the poor formatting. I just copied and pasted from the original document.

CADIAN SHOCK TROOPS IMPERIAL GUARD ARMY LIST
A Cadian Shock Troops regiment is allowed to use the following new units. All other units are covered in section 5.3.2 of the Epic: Armageddon rulebook.


CADIAN WHITESHIELDS
Type Speed Armour Close Combat Firefight
Infantry 15cm none 6+ 6+
Weapons: Lasguns, and 0-1 Autocannon
Weapon Range Firepower
Lasguns (15cm) Small Arms
Autocannon 45cm AP5+/AT6+
Notes: Only one unit in every two carries heavy weapons. Count up the number of Infantry units in the formation that can fire at the target formation and divide by two (rounding up) to find the number of autocannon shots you may take.

CADIAN KASRKIN
Type Speed Armour Close Combat Firefight
Infantry 15cm 5+ 5+ 5+
Weapons: Hellguns, and Plasma Guns
Weapon Range Firepower
Hellguns (15cm) Small Arms
Plasma Guns 15cm AP5+/AT5+
Notes: None. Some Kasrkin are noted as being Kasrkin Infiltrators, which have the Scout Special Rule, but are otherwise identical to normal Kasrkin formations.

SENTINEL (Cadian Pattern)
Type Speed Armour Close Combat Firefight
Light Vehicle 20cm 6+ 6+ 5+
Weapons: 1 Autocannon.
Weapon Range Firepower
Autocannon 45cm AP5+/AT6+
Notes: Walker, Scout.

SPECIAL WEAPONS TEAMS
Type Speed Armour Close Combat Firefight
Infantry 15cm 6+ 6+ 4+
Weapons: Lasguns, Demolition Charges, 2 Grenade Launchers
Weapon Range Firepower
Lasguns (15cm) Small Arms
Demolition Charges (15cm) Small Arms, Macro Weapon, extra attack (+1), One Shot
Grenade Launcher 15cm AP5+/AT6+
Notes: None


The structure of the Cadian regiments is copied across the galaxy, with many thousands of infantry regiments formed into the standard groups of squad, platoon and company. Unlike the Steel Legions of Armageddon, the Cadians, and those that emulate them, operate in immense companies formed of two or more large infantry platoons ? the reason being that, even on the manufacturing world of Armageddon, Chimera APCs are rare, and limited in number, preventing mechanised Infantry companies from matching the sheer size and scope of a standard Infantry company. Due to the diversity of missions given to the Cadians, ranging from static defence, to mass counter-attack, the Tank and Artillery companies founded there have also adopted the flexible-size doctrine, allowing resources to be precisely deployed and applied where needed.

Special Rules
An Imperial Guard army may include 2D6 Commissar characters. The Commissars do not cost any points. If the dice roll exceeds the number of Commissar units that a player has available have available then any excess are lost.
Roll to see how many Commissar units that a player may add to their army at the start of the battle before either side sets up. If the army includes a Supreme Commander than the first Commissar must be attached to the Supreme Commander?s formation. Any further Commissars may be attached to any other formations. You may not include more than one Commissar per formation. If you have more Commissars than formations then any excess are lost.

Using the Army List
The following army list allows you to field an Imperial Guard army that is based on a Cadian Shock Troops regiment. It can also be used as a ?stand in? army list for other Imperial Guard infantry regiments, such as the Mordians, or Praetorian Guard, as opposed to Mechanised Infantry as represented by the Armageddon Steel Legion list.

Cadian Shock Troop regiment formations come in two types: companies and support formations. Each company you include in the army allows you to field any one support formation. Although you can only take a support formation if you first take a company, they are treated as separate independent formations during a battle and do not have to move around together.

Each company consists of a number of platoons ? smaller divisions of the formation, normally around 50 men, or three armoured vehicles, although in these cases, Platoons are referred to as Squadrons or Batteries. Beyond army selection, platoons have no impact upon the game itself, and are simply a means to allow a measure of flexibility within the army as a whole.

In addition companies may be given up to three company upgrades. Each type of upgrade can only be taken once by a company (i.e. an infantry company could have an Ogryn and a Sniper upgrade, but not two Sniper upgrades). Each upgrade that is taken adds to the cost of the company, as shown on the upgrade chart. Note that you may take any type of upgrade for any type of company; so, for example, if you want to include a platoon of Leman Russ tanks with an infantry company or snipers in a Tank Company then you may do so. Support formations may not be given company upgrades.

Up to a third of the points available to the army may be spent on Imperial Navy aircraft or Titan Legion formations.

Cadian Shock Troop Companies


0-1 Regimental HQ
- One Supreme Command unit and eight Kasrkin units
- - 300 points

0-1 Leviathan Command Centre
- One Leviathan
- - No points decided yet (included for Background Reasons)

Cadian Infantry Company
- Imperial Guard Command unit plus 2-5 platoons consisting of ten Imperial Guard Infantry units each.
- - 200 points per Platoon

Cadian Armoured Company
- Leman Russ Vanquisher command tank, and 2-4 Squadrons of three Leman Russ tanks each. - 250 points per Squadron

Cadian Artillery Company
- 2-4 Batteries of 3 Basilisk or Manticore each
- - 250 points per battery

Cadian Super-Heavy Tank Company
- Three Baneblades or Shadowswords, or any combination of the two.
- - 500 points

Cadian Youth Army Company
- 2-5 Platoons of 6 Cadian Whiteshield units each.
- - 100 points per Platoon

-
Cadian Support Formations (one may be taken per Cadian Shock Troops company)


Kasrkin Platoon
- Eight Cadian Kasrkin Infiltrator units (may have four Valkyrie transport vehicles).
- - 200 points (+150 points if mounted in Valkyrie)

Cadian Armoured Fist Platoon
- Imperial Guard Command unit, plus six Imperial Guard Infantry units and four Chimera.
- - 250 points

Cadian Artillery Battery
- Three units chosen from the following list: Basilisk, Bombard, Manticore
- 250 points

Sentinel Squadron
- Four Cadian Pattern Sentinels
- - 125 points

0-1 Deathstrike Missile Battery
- Two Deathstrike Missile Launchers
- - 200 points

Super-heavy Tank Platoon
- One Baneblade or Shadowsword
- - 200 points

Orbital Support
One Imperial Navy Lunar class cruiser
- 150 points (may be upgraded to Emperor class battleship for +150 points)

Flak Battery
- Three Hydra
- - 150 points

Vulture Squadron
- Four Vultures
- - 300 points

-
Cadian Shock Troops Company Upgrades (three may be taken per Cadian Shock Troops company)


Fire Support Platoon
- Four Fire Support units
- - 100 points

Infantry Platoon
- Ten Imperial Guard Infantry units
- - 125 points

Special Weapons Platoon
- Four Special Weapons units
- - 150 points

Tank Squadron
- Three Leman Russ or three Leman Russ Demolisher
- - 250 points

Hellhound Squadron
- Three Hellhounds
- - 150 points

Snipers
- Two Snipers
- - 50 points

Flak
- One or Two Hydra
- - 50 points each

-

Imperial Navy Aircraft

Two Thunderbolt Fighters
- 100 points
Two Marauder Bombers
- - 250 points












Titan Legion Battlegroups

Warlord Titan Battlegroup
- - One Warlord Class Titan
- - 850 points

Reaver Titan Battlegroup
- One Reaver Class Titan
- - 650 points

Warhound Titan Battlegroup
- One or Two Warhound Class Titans
- - 250 points per Warhound

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 Post subject: Epic Supplements
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:43 pm 
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Start a new thread for any armylist suggestions, IMHO.

I'd rather not bury this interesting thread in discussions on armylist specifics, rather keep it on-topic as it's rather important.





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 Post subject: Epic Supplements
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:44 pm 
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(Warmaster Nice @ Jan. 24 2007,14:07)
QUOTE
Interesting things happen when one goes hunting. ?First off there does not appear to be even the frame work for a Cadian Army List.


I've got a printed copy of an early Cadian list somewhere. I think it was written shortly after the main E:A rulebook was finished (Possibly even earlier) and does indeed feature kasrkin, whiteshields etc. Wherther or not I still have the world file somewhere is another question but I'll have a look around in my old backup cds...

I have a "Cadia v2.2" file on my hard disk. PM me if you're interested.

As for the Epic supplements, I haven't read the whole thread, but I'm all for it and willing to give a hand if necessary! ?:)

EDIT: oh well, WN beat me to it. ?:p

EDIT 2: actually, the list I have seems different. There are Sanctioned Psykers, for one thing. So my offer still stands.  :)






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 Post subject: Epic Supplements
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:47 pm 
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Looks very interesting.  Out of interest how do the infantry companies work?  Are all the platoons a single activation or is there a different command structure?

EDIT- you both beat me too  :p





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 Post subject: Epic Supplements
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:08 pm 
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(nealhunt @ Jan. 24 2007,14:03)
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Tau first.  The range is already (mostly) available from FW.

Agreed Tau would be a priority.

I'd base priority on what models are currently produced by the GW umbrella.




"Black Crusade" and "Third Sphere" could be worked on simultaniously (All models available).


"Hive Fleet" wouldn't be too low a priority (Models exist, if not commonly available).


Likewise a Super-Heavies Suppliment (AMTL, OGBM, Eldar Titans) would seem to be a moderate possibility, though many models are OOP, some are still in production.


"Ancient Ones (Necrons)" and "Raiders (Dark Eldar)" would be lower priority as models are all proxies / scratchbuilds currently.





"Black Crusade" would feature:
- Black Legion
- Lost and the Damned
- Daemonhunters (IA:5 themed)
- Krieg? (IA:5 themed)

The problem there is that IA:5 features 'traitor guard' rather than Lost and the Damned, but the differences should be minor enough that the Epic LATD list can be used to represent the IA:5 'traitors' list... They're all Chaos-worshipping Guardsmen when you get down to it!




"Third Sphere" would feature:
- Tau
- Gue'senshi
- Elysians (Taros Themed)
- Cadian Armoured Regiment? (Taros Themed)
- Alaitoc

The Tau guys would have their own ideas on what direction to take here I'm sure.


Other potential lists would be:

- Cadian Infantry Regiment
- Variant SM & Eldar lists

Any others?



I'd say that 4 lists would be a good ammount per Suppliment?

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 Post subject: Epic Supplements
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:10 pm 
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Although the Dark Eldar only make up a small portion of this discussion, I thought this would be relevant:

Frank, Erik and I have always had our long term plan to include fiction and modeling suggestions.  With Charad's and Rug's first attempts plus others, that will become a reality this summer.  Frank/Xisor has been writing his fiction for a few months now, so I am hopeful.

The end result is the Dark Eldar will be it's own supplement around July.  Now we never considered Specialist Games or GW Lawyers into our plan.  It's our project.  Emails from Andy suggested that we could do what we wanted with it since they had no plans to ever develop the Dark Eldar at all.  He gave us a blessing for using all published artwork and background material as well.  The only caveat is that we not profit from the endeavor.

Now it is conceivable that SG/GW could say it belongs to them and they want control of it.  But the only scenario I see where that would come up is if they really wanted to develop the models and rules.  Would that be so bad?  Sure, you might have your efforts swiped by SG, but the models would be professionally produced and you would actually have some support from SG.  That isn't a bad trade off IMO.

When it comes to the other lists (Cadians, Eldar, Chaos, etc.) it gets a little trickier since the models already exist.  But once again, do we care if SG takes notice?

If they don't then we continue with our efforts.  
If they do then they have a reason for it (meaning producing models, publications, and providing support).  They aren't going to go through the effort of trying to take a list from somebody and then do nothing with it.

Just some of my thoughts.  Am I off my rocker?

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 Post subject: Epic Supplements
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:11 pm 
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EDIT 2: actually, the list I have seems different. There are Sanctioned Psykers, for one thing. So my offer still stands.  


Post it up in a new thread.

Cadians are known to use sanctioned psychers (Unlike any of the other current Epic IG armies), so they should definitely be in there! :)

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 Post subject: Epic Supplements
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:13 pm 
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Just some of my thoughts.  Am I off my rocker?


Not at all, and that's great news about your intentions for the DE list!

I quite agree, that whether or not SG takes notice, such a project would likely benefit the community.

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 Post subject: Epic Supplements
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:14 pm 
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FYI I personally would not have a problem including the Dark Eldar pdf in a larger publication.  I'll talk it over with the guys but my guess is they wouldn't mind either.  

If somebody wants them to be part of a larger fictional account (akin to the Swordwind supplement with Feral Orks and Siegemasters and Biel Tan), we can discuss it.  

Our only goal is to put the Dark Eldar on the Epic map and to make it fun.

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 Post subject: Epic Supplements
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:20 pm 
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Might it not be an idea to email Andy and see whether he is keen on the supplement idea now, and take it from there?

If he accepts the 'Black Crusade' and 'Third Sphere' concepts, well and good. If not, we have our answer in any event.

And I would say that the Cadian list is better off staying in the Black Crusade supplement - since Cadia happens to lie at the very core of the 13th Black Crusade, after all! (What with those giant fields of Pylons, and so forth...It's not called the CADIAN Gate for nothing!)


Gary





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 Post subject: Epic Supplements
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:53 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Jan. 24 2007,10:13)
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Just some of my thoughts. ?Am I off my rocker?


Not at all, and that's great news about your intentions for the DE list!

I quite agree, that whether or not SG takes notice, such a project would likely benefit the community.

Yeah, what E&C said.

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 Post subject: Epic Supplements
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:56 pm 
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And I would say that the Cadian list is better off staying in the Black Crusade supplement - since Cadia happens to lie at the very core of the 13th Black Crusade, after all! (What with those giant fields of Pylons, and so forth...It's not called the CADIAN Gate for nothing!)


I agree, the Cadian list would go perfectly in a 13th Black Crusade-themed suppliment.

The only problem is that Cadian models are OOP... and one would hope that to be included in an Online Suppliment with a 'Core' list, all models in the Suppliment would either be currently in production or would be easy conversions?

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 Post subject: Epic Supplements
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:21 pm 
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These make pretty good looking Cadians to me:



One more reason not to get SG involved...

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