Specialists Games Poll of the Month |
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Warmaster Nice
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Post subject: Specialists Games Poll of the Month  Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2004 6:56 pm |
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Do demon hunters really deserve a separate list? |
One could imagine a "Servants of the Imperium" list (or set of lists) which could include SoB, Ordo Xenos and Daemonhunters. Tech guard would probably be added to the Adeptus Mechanicus list which has been mentioned by Jervis on several occations.
The Servants of the Imperium could then be used in conjunction with other Imperial lists as the only exception to the "no allies" rule.
...Just a thought 
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primarch
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Post subject: Specialists Games Poll of the Month Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2004 6:56 pm |
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Hi!
It seems its the same conept we've used for net epic then. You have an overall "theme" say Imperials, then have the lists designed so as to make a SM, IG, SoB, Tech force, PDF, etc only armies. They are all Imperials, use similar units, similar organization, but for "character" you can field just a pure force on one of its "parts".
We did the same for the Eldar, where there are "craftworld" eldar, exodites and dark eldar, but they are all under "eldar".
So I guess demonhunters are not a "Separate independent list", but an extension of, say imperials, but you can field a pure force of it?
Primarch
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pixelgeek
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Post subject: Specialists Games Poll of the Month Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2004 7:05 pm |
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| Quote (primarch @ 08 2004 Jan.,09:56) | | So I guess demonhunters are not a "Separate independent list", but an extension of, say imperials, but you can field a pure force of it? |
Depends on what you want to do with the list.
Currently there is no "Imperial" racial/base army list in Epic in the same wy that there is a base Space Marine list.
So yourt first step would be to determine what the Daemonhunter army was going to be a "race" of. I'd think that it would be an Inquisitor "race" as opposed to a more generic Imperial "race" which might be best left for an SoB/Frater army.
I don't think that the idea of a "pure" force works in EpicA outside of this idea of a base/racial army list. Special rules for the race get determined and then subsequent army lists based on that initial lists are not supposed to have any additional special rules that are not structural in nature (one of the common complaints about fan lists so far).
So if the base list for an army, say Inquisitors, was designed to have units from more than one Imperial branch (say Grey Knights, Imperial Guard and marines) then the army is still going to be a "pure" force in that it still conforms to the structure of the army.
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Legion 4
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Post subject: Specialists Games Poll of the Month Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2004 6:01 am |
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Well, I think having the =][= and G/Knights attached to Main Force Armies is the way to do it. ?I really don't know how big a D/Hunter Army or Force could be ? ? They should be smaller "elite"/specialized elements attached to the IG, SMs, etc. ?And the SoBs are "Nuns with Guns", so I could see them working along side the =][= ... there is certainly an historical precedent for it ... 
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pixelgeek
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Post subject: Specialists Games Poll of the Month Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2004 6:08 am |
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| Quote (Legion 4 @ 08 2004 Jan.,21:01) | | so I could see them working the =][= ... there is certainly an historical precedent for it ... |
Not sure of the historical precedent (which bit of fluff are you referring to?) but the Adeptus Sororitas is overseen by the Adeptus Ministorum which might not want to work hand in hand with the Inquisition :-)
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Legion 4
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Post subject: Specialists Games Poll of the Month Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2004 6:22 am |
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Good point, I was referring to "real" history not fluff ... sometimes at my age I get reality and fantasy confused ... ? However, I could see SoB attached to SMs or IG for certain missions, just as I can see the same for the =][= and G/Knights. ? SoB and G/Knight Forces would probably be no bigger than a Company. ?And could easily be attached to other Imperial Forces. ?But bottomline is ... it's all up to G/W to produce a list ... ? 
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Mojarn Piett
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Post subject: Specialists Games Poll of the Month Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2004 8:01 am |
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From the comments received, I think I would make "Inquisition" as the base list in this case and determine some basic troops on that basis. Then I'd make three variations of the list based on the ordos (Xenos, Malleus and Hereticus), each with a specialized unit or two.
Example: all Inquisitors would have access to Stormtroopers. Ordo Malleus would have Grey Knights, Ordo Xenos would have Deathwatch while Ordo Hereticus could well have the SoB unless an Ecclesiarchy list is foreseen, in which case the Hereticus needs their own Chamber Militant.
That way the inquisition list would have the stormtroopers at its core and be essentially a fast-moving maneuverable force but lacking the really heavy stuff.
The problem is, I don't think Inquisition ever fights battles the scale of an Epic game. That's more in line with Ecclesiarchy and their Wars of faith. Inquisitors usually work behind the lines of a big battle pursuing their own special agenda linked to the bigger battle in some way.
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the_fifth_horseman
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Post subject: Specialists Games Poll of the Month Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:39 am |
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Well, each of the three Ordos would certainly have its own list.
Ordo Malleus: =I=, =I= Stormtroopers and Grey Knights
Ordo Hereticus: =I= and Sisters of Battle
Ordo Xenos:  =I= and Deathwatch, maybe?
Each of the Ordos can take Imperial Guard and Space Marine allies, but no more then, say, 10% of the total army points limit.
So the Sisters of Battle would be a different release to Grey Knights.
Oh, and Warmaster Nice, you can take a look on my Sisters of Battle proxies on groups.yahoo.com/group/epica to have some idea on the...  epic scale bumpers.
Not sure of the historical precedent (which bit of fluff are you referring to?) but the Adeptus Sororitas is overseen by the Adeptus Ministorum which might not want to work hand in hand with the Inquisition :-) |
Pixelgeek, thou are therefore strongly advised to read all the relevant fluff again.
Sisters of Battle are Adepta Sororitas, the Adeptus Ministorum have some command over them, but the most recent background shows that Sisters are part of the Ordo Hereticus.
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Warmaster Nice
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Post subject: Specialists Games Poll of the Month Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2004 11:06 am |
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Reading the background from codex Armageddon (and E:A too for that matter) the Ordo Xenos only had a couple of Kill Teams present in the entire Armageddon Sector during the Battle for Armageddon. I think this would be a pretty good indicator that they don't fight Epic sized battles alone. I must say that I'm with L4 on this: A small attattchment to an existing Imperial force is probably the best way to go. I do still like the suggestion of making Inquisitorial Storm troopers, Rhinos etc. a part of the support choice for such a formation.
Cheers!
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pixelgeek
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Post subject: Specialists Games Poll of the Month Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2004 4:42 pm |
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| Quote (the_fifth_horseman @ 09 2004 Jan.,01:39) | Pixelgeek, thou are therefore strongly advised to read all the relevant fluff again.
Sisters of Battle are Adepta Sororitas, the Adeptus Ministorum have some command over them, but the most recent background shows that Sisters are part of the Ordo Hereticus. |
Just read the SoB codex this week and the Codex Imperialis and can't see a reference to it.
Where are you seeing this?
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Legion 4
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Post subject: Specialists Games Poll of the Month Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2004 5:38 pm |
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This whole discussion looks like an Imperial "Turf War" thing, who controls what, who out ranks who, etc., etc. ... ?
Again, I'm going to wait and see what G/W finally comes up with. The G/W fluff, as usual, is capricious and confusing as ever.
And who knows if they will even make any new figures or models... or just do some more rules.
So I say, to Hell with it and I'm glad I voted for a new "real" Army, (although still in it's infancy !) The Necrons!!! (laughs sinisterly) AHAHAHAhahaha aaaaa! 
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Warmaster Nice
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Post subject: Specialists Games Poll of the Month Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:37 pm |
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Or just use the GW fluff as a basic outline and design your own stuff..... |
Hear Hear! The fluff should just be the starting point. One of the things I really loved about the early fluff (AT, Realms of Chaos etc.) was the sense of the universe as a vast unexplored place where almost everything was possible. Today everything seems to be much less flexible (sorry, I'm a bit short of words here) "a space marine with a lasgun! Are you NUTS!!!" If it's not specifically written somewhere ( and hasn't been outdated by newer fluff) it can't be done.
...og my god! I'm starting to sound like an old man here! "aaah, I remember back then... those were the times"
Cheers!
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pixelgeek
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Post subject: Specialists Games Poll of the Month Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:50 pm |
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| Quote (Warmaster Nice @ 09 2004 Jan.,13:37) | | Hear Hear! The fluff should just be the starting point. |
Well easier said than done when you're writing for the official game :-)
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