I dont think that this will be as difficult as some people think, but it WILL require that the general EA community broadens their perspective a little. The chance of any manufacturer coming up with a '6mm Eldar Falcon' is pretty much nil. The design and IP belongs to GW. If anyone is specifically looking for THAT tank in 6mm after sources dry up, they are out of luck. However, GW have been very careful about keeping their design styles distinct for the races, and that can help. There are basically two races with hover tanks - Eldar and Tau - and these two races have very different styles. Not only that, but the armament is pretty distinctive in general. A sleek hover tank with no gun? Wave Serpent. A sleek hover tank with a gun? Falcon. A sleek hover tank with a big gun? Fire Prism. A blocky hover tank with a big gun? Tau Hammerhead.

Even within the infantry, as long as you are not specifically looking for '6mm Eldar Howling Banshees', some armoured females with swords painted the right colours work well. For Space Marines, things are even easier, as armoured human scifi troops are pretty ubiquitous. What we really need are more 6mm companies producing science fiction miniatures. Not, GW science fiction, but their own stuff. The more options and choices we have, the more individual our armies become.

However, all of this does nothing for two groups of players - those who specifically want the 40K designs in 6mm, and new players who dont want to have to re-learn what the units are. That is the big issue we are facing.



Absolutely! It worked for us in the 80's and it can work for us today. You kids today with your different Eldar Aspect troops and you multitude of IG vehicles. When I were a lad, all we had was a Tactical Marine, an Eldar Guardian and three types of tanks..... *grumble, grumble, grumble*

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And don't forget different coloured bases to represent different troup types.

And flag's on bases for commanders...

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Daemon Engines? I can't see anything remotely resembling Tzeentch flyers, Khorne Daemon Engines, or Plague Towers of Nurgle? Slaanesh Knights? As for the Lord of Battles, definitely not. I'm lucky in that I have all of these (save for the Nurgle Daemon Engines, and Slaanesh Knights).



Kraytonian Grav tanks looks about as un-Eldar as you can get. They look like ships from a Silent Death fleet, and there are no Eldar in Silent Death. They are a totally inadequate proxy in my opinion.



I can't put into words how much I dislike that, sorry .



For anyone who's a remotely competent modeller, I'm sure that's feasible for the infantry. I couldn't do it, because I'm not a competent modeller.

It's also yet another step for new players. I mean, if they're happy to have to model away to get the desired look, then that's okay, but I'm concerned that it's just going to put people off having to put in another level of work before they can actually play the game with an army which fits the aesthetic.



Yes, this is the precise problem CS. I've grown up with my Eldar and Chaos armies in 6mm. Heck, I've played Epic in some form or another since 1993. For all GW's faults, I like their Space Marine era Epic designs, and the current plastic infantry for Eldar and Chaos. This cannot be recreated, and I don't see how anyone can even capture the spirit of it with any design.

I hope that I'm wrong, but at the moment, I just can't see it at all.

It's a different kettle of fish for fantasy; indeed not only do good proxies exist for Warmaster, they also exist for Warhammer (Kings of War being a good example). It's a lot more difficult for 40K/Epic equivalents.

Note that I don't want to come across as being overly negative about this, but we're most likely to attract new players who are already familiar with GW's core systems, but want to try something different, so they're likely to come with preconceptions as to what the figures should look like. If we can't match that expectation, then we could end up with something of a recruitment and retention problem.

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I see your point Irisado, but I think you're being overly negative..... I want to keep within the GW aesthetic too, but the reality is that will become less and less feasible as time goes on.... if you want to look at it as the end, then fair enough, but there are easily enough people out there who are willing to move forward with proxies and scratchbuilds, this isn't the end of epic, but it's the end of an era of the game..... it's been in the hands of the fans for a long time already, this doesn't change that...

I'm actually angry at myself for emotionally investing so heavily in the GW universe, and as a solution I'm planning to pick up fleets for hostile stars as well as some 6mm fantasy armies which don't have GW equivalents to wean myself off it, I think after playing games in the wider wargaming universe, attachment to GW will begin to fade....

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Rubbish! Eldar have been through several editions, and changed quite markedly in style over the years. As have most GW ranges. I heard these exact same complaints "that it doesn't look like 'X' when new Epic ranges came out over the last couple of decades. Like the latest revenants - "it just looks like a 40k guardian not a proper titan" (kind of true). Or "that looks like a necron titan not an eldar one" with the edition before that. Meh. The only constant in life is change. If you don't go with it sometimes you will be miserable...

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I don't think that it's the end of Epic. There's good proxies out there for Guard, Orks, and some other factions have their own models anyway, because GW never got around to making them. I fear it's the end for Chaos and Eldar though.



I'm fully aware of the changes to Eldar models through the editions . I still don't like the current stuff compared to the original Space Marine sculpts, but it's still more in keeping with what I perceive the Eldar style to be than the proxies which I have seen.

If you like the alternatives, then that's great, and I'm more than happy for you, and anyone else, for that matter. I'm not going to jump on the proxy bandwagon, and say that I think it's great though, as that would be disingenuous to myself, and, perhaps more importantly, the community at large.

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I just had a look at the kraytonian vehicles and I think they would work very well for Tau..... very very well in fact.... in fact my already anaemic bank balance may take another hit soon....

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OK. Maybe Grimdark SciFi cannot exist without GW. Who knows? I for sure think that is definitely not true.

But lets imagine that you are correct. What do you suggest be done? In a constructive fashion?

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Nitpicks Knapsack (Scratchbuilding and 3D designing and printing and painting)

I too think that they would look pretty good for Tau.



I'm referring to a specific problem with Eldar, and some Chaos, models, not the Epic universe as a whole.

As for what can be done, answers on a postcard I'm afraid. I don't see a solution. It's just a case of getting stuff off e-bay where possible.

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All that chaos has lost is the infantry, other than that its the same situation as pre the plastic chaos box (2009?)

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heh very true!

dig up mageboltrat's thread and take some inspiration from how he converted his own daemon engines and chaos vehicles.... hell a chaos rhino is simply a rhino with spiky bits or melty bits or tentacly bits.... I would have thought the very nature of chaos daemon engines would make them all totally unique.....

just stock up on the currently available chaos boxes for infantry, trade the bits you dont want for the stuff you do, then get the bitz box out and trawl ebay for cheapo plastic land raiders and rhinos.....

then either do similar for eldar, or accept that you can't proxy them and give up (and die a little bit inside, then borrow a friend's eldar if you really want to play with them)

edit: I also have some pizza slice falcons (9 I think...) as well as a couple of e40k cobras and a trio of nightwings I may consider letting go to someone who is going to give them a good home.... (no PMs please.... )

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Just some guy

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Sorry I should have clarified my meaning better. There's very little that can be IP protected in the GW Daemon Engines and Chaos Daemons. They all draw heavily on existing archetypes from art and legend. So much so that a 3rd party designer could easily fill the gaps. For instance, take a Bloodthirster of Khorne: Big classic winged demon from classic European religious art. Easily something that a convincing model proxy could be created. I can't call it a Bloodthirster but I can call it a hellspawn demon. Hell, the chaos symbol itself isn't even owned by GW. The Slannesh symbol is actually taken from real ocult symbols. Just saying that demonic things are pretty safe in comparison to something like Eldar and Marines of both alignments.

I also have to point out that all the items you mentioned have been OOP for ages so I find that rather amusing. Nothing's changed for them.

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Yes. And lets lament the recent catastrophic loss of the Plague Towers...

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I have recieved the FW Thunderhawk, many thanks to Apocolocyntosis for his kind offer and rapid shipping, it is greatly appreciated.