The Demiurg |
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Moscovian
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Post subject: The Demiurg  Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:23 pm |
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Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:32 pm
Posts: 6414
Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania USA
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mintroll
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Post subject: The Demiurg Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:26 pm |
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Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:51 am
Posts: 199
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Now you're going to think I'm just being mean, but...
in the cyclops stats - why would you ever use the Melta Cannons?
yes they ignore cover, but the Hellfury is at 2+, firing into cover makes it 3+, better than the Meltas, and all MW ignore cover saves... there are 2 meltas to the 3 hellfury dice.
...did I mention I'm very appreciative of the time you put into doing the list. I'm grateful I have something to even comment on. That goes to everyone working on the experimental lists as well.
_________________ Experience is the fool's best teacher; the wise do not need it. http://epica.2-72.co.uk
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epilgrim
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Post subject: The Demiurg Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 3:34 am |
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Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2003 12:28 pm
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Minitroll,
no offese taken, excellent questions are what they are. that's why the world depends on erasers, correcting fluid and the delete key!
As for my responses:
While TBM are still on the cradles:
- allocating hits: as per the main rules, front to back, the fact that the TBM and cradle are stacked means that you allocate 2 hits to the lead TBM/cradle before allocating hits to the next closest. the owning player can specify the unit that is hit, as per main rules for units at same distance or if there is an odd hit left to allocate (personally I would allocate to the cradle rather than risk the troops inside the TBM too!).
- during assault: the first unit in base contact is against the cradle, the next could be put against the TBM.
- trapping units: in order to accomplish this as per the earlier example you must have 1 unit in contact with the cradle, and 2 units in contact with the TBM.
NOTE: this only applies to Mole and Termite TBM, the Hellbore/Hog combo are WE and require 6 enemy units in order to trap them.
If the infantry disembark from the TBM as part of an action they cannot embark in the same game. As per the rules that describe the TBM, they are a separate formation as soon as the infantry disembark. (anything to the contrary makes this formation option too powerful)
NOTE: as per the main rules, you can purposely choose to abandon infantry that have no ride (see 1.7.4). This would allow you to still launch the TBM you have left if they get attacked before they can activate.
I am not going to get fiddly and delve into 'realism'. If a cradle is destroyed but the TBM survives, it can still launch. Lastly, all BM from any attacks remain on the cradles once the TBM launch.
as noted the stats for the TBM and cradles for CC/FF are all the same. So the how and what makes no nevermind. 
As for the Cyclops...ugh, you are correct in that the Hellfury is always better than the melta weapons...I think in my mind the Hellfury should have a minimum focal point...which would make the melta weapons useful...but I didn't write it that way...yet.
thank for the spot, and the questions, more to think on...
_________________
Squat/Demiurg Army Co-Champion (in cahoots with Jaldon)
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Moscovian
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Post subject: The Demiurg Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 2:04 pm |
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Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:32 pm
Posts: 6414
Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania USA
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A couple of thoughts before I head off to work:
It seems 'fiddly' to have the TBMs launching without their cradles. Otherwise, you wouldn't need the cradles! If the TBM can't launch, it should be considered separated from its formation (with the troops in it) and be removed as casualties.
IMO it should just be another weakness to the formation. ePilgrim and I had the discussion of the many benefits this type of formation brings. First and foremost is that it effectively can split itself into three separate formations, each able to hold objectives (cradles, TBMs, and troops).
It is an early activation as pointed out, and troops can screen against assaults. Early casualties due to artillery, spacecraft, or airpower are part of the game for any formation. The TBMs will actually fare better than most transport formations because the formation will absorb more AT allocations than a normal transport group (2 per TBM/cradle).
_________________ author of Syncing Forward and other stories...It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.
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epilgrim
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Post subject: The Demiurg Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 12:14 am |
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Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2003 12:28 pm
Posts: 362
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M,
are you trying to suck the fun out of my game? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
Seriously...I already handicapped the cradles, and adjusted thier stats to make them useable, but pathetic. I am not going to go one step further and make them a liability.
If they prove to be a continued source of frustration as currently profiled, they will become an aesthetic. For now they stay as is.
If in fact the tunneler formation starts becoming a problem, the rules will be pulled back even further and they will deploy off board as per drop pods.
playtesting will show the merits and failures. I would like some other peoples bat-reps as a balancing factor.
_________________
Squat/Demiurg Army Co-Champion (in cahoots with Jaldon)
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Moscovian
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Post subject: The Demiurg Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:26 am |
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Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:32 pm
Posts: 6414
Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania USA
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epilgrim
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Post subject: The Demiurg Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 2:44 am |
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Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2003 12:28 pm
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yeah, you and whose Guard Army?.... 
_________________
Squat/Demiurg Army Co-Champion (in cahoots with Jaldon)
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mintroll
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Post subject: The Demiurg Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:56 pm |
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Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:51 am
Posts: 199
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ok, the postman just delievered my lovely new squats... a couple of questions about them then:
hearthguard = hearthguard (5 figs to a base?)
guild bikers = bikers (2/3 per base)
guild weapons teams = trikes (1 per base?)
moles and thudds = moles and thuds (1 per base)
exo-armoured suats on bikes =? hearthguard cavalry (1 per base?)
For the brotheroods, I assume as for SM; ie.
iron-breaker unit = 4x squat warriors 1x squat with missile on a base
armsmes =? i like to say 5x squat with missile, but there aren't that many of them on the sprues...
sappers =? assult troops
what about the squats with heavy bolters and those in exo-armour (they can be the trade factor and marshal i suppose)
these are my quick thoughts, just wondered what everyone else was doing?
My opponent is gonna be in for a shock at our next game.
_________________ Experience is the fool's best teacher; the wise do not need it. http://epica.2-72.co.uk
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epilgrim
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Post subject: The Demiurg Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:25 am |
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Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2003 12:28 pm
Posts: 362
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ok,
here goes:
Merchant Prince (infanry) - 1 exo-armour, 4 standards
Merchant Prince (mounted) - 1 exo-armour converted on a bike, two bikers with standards (10 X 40 mm warmaster base)
Legate Marshal (infantry) - 1 exo-armour, 1 standard, 3 iron-breakers
Legate Marshal (mounted) - 1 exo-armour converted on a bike, two exo-armour bikers (lances) (10 X 40 mm warmaster base)
Trade Factor (infantry) - 1 hearthguard (pointy hat), 1 standard, 3 iron-breakers
Trade Factor (mounted)- 1 hearthguard converted on a bike, two exo-armour bikers (lances) (10 X 40 mm warmaster base)
Hearthguard (infantry) 3 types - 4 exo-armour or heathguard each with 1 standard, or 5 chaos squats (this covers the 3 types of hearthguard described in the Consortium List)
Heathguard Cavalry - 3 exo-armour bikers (lances) (10 X 40 mm warmaster base)
Iron-Breakers - 4 iron-breakers with any 1 heavy weapon
Armsmen - 5 heavy weapons, same type
Sandhogs - 5 sandhogs
Bikers - 3 bikers (10 X 40 mm warmaster base)
Trikers - 1 trike (20mm square base)
Support Weapons - weapon with 1 or 2 iron-breakers or weapons operator model. (20mm square base)
All infantry can be on new or old epic bases, I prefer the square bases for the Demiurg (chunky look) personally so that's how I have modeled everything.
I'm planning on doing pics soon.
_________________
Squat/Demiurg Army Co-Champion (in cahoots with Jaldon)
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