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Base preferance

 Post subject: Base preferance
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:07 pm 
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Okay, had the game (actually had it on Saturday)

These are roughly the lists;

Imperial

Mechanised Co.
- Tank Sqd
- Hellhounds
- Griffons

Support 1 - Sentinels
Support 2 - Hydras

Super Heavy Tank Co. (2 Banes 1 Shadow)
- Fire Support
- Troop (6 stands)
- Ogryns with Chimera

Support1 - Rough Riders

Warlord Titan

Orkziez

Big Warband - Xtra Nob, Boyz (+ grotz), Stompa, Dread, Gun fortress

Normal Warband - 2 Xtra Boyz (+ grotz), Stompa

Big KoS

Stormboyz

Big BB

Stompa Mob - 4 Xtra Dreads

Gargant

Table

The table was about 4 foot in each direction, so not a huge amount of room.  The terrain was a city scape, with lots of ruins, bunkers, refinerys. etc.  It meant not a lot of LoS as something usually blocked it.  So no long range weapon advantages.  The only exception was a grassy strip running the left side of the board (from Orks point of view, as everything will be) which was clear except for a bunker about half way.

Deployment
Orks won deployment, but we pretty much just put our stuff down without waiting for each other anyway.

From Left to right Orks were - Storm boyz - Big Warband - Stompa Mob - Normal Warband - Big BB - Gargant - KoS

Imperial Left to right as I looked at them - SHT Co. - Rough Riders - Hydras - Mech Co.- Sentinels - Warlord

First turn was uneventful, we both just positioned our selves. My big warband failed to activate first turn, and every turn after that.  For the first 3 turns, my activation rolling was very poor.  Consistantly rolling 1,2 and 3's.  Even changing dice never worked. I also forgot until turn 4 that I get to re-roll one test due to my supreme commander

Turn 2+ Imperial got first go.  He positioned his Mech Co. to get everything in range to shoot my Stompa Mob.  He killed a Stompa and a couple of Dreads, breaking the unit.  These never regrouped. His SHT went down the grassy strip, in an attempt to out flank me.  This was supported by his Rough Rider Det.  I assaulted the Rough Riders with my StormBoyz, but I only had range to use FF values.  Trying to out gun him (I had 5 units firing to his 2)  I failed, only succeding in rolling abysmally and getting wiped out for no loss to him.

His Warlord went down the otherflank, and through the refinery.  Lots of coolingtowers meant I couldn't draw a LoF to it.  Which was quite good as I had nothing strong enough to take it down through firing.  He killed 3 of my Big BB, which retreated and regrouped.

In my turns i advanced p the centre (which was a bottle neck) and concentrated on his large Mech Co.  I fired my normal warband, Stompa Mob (before they broke) and KoS at it, aswell as my Gargant.  Bad rolling (and the fact I was usually using double orders so at -1 to hit) meant I hardly inflicted any damage.  I tried sustained fore, but kept failing to activate, so shot normally as my hold response.  After 2 turns of firing at it, it finally broke.  Meanwhile, my Big Mob was taking several casulties from the SHT and Hydras.  I kept failing to activate them, and it was a hard choice between firing at the Hydras/SHT or moving out of thier way.

Luckily my Grotz kept the damage to a minimum.

After regrouping, my BB shot up the outside of the refinery.  A small road on the very right hand side of the board.  They were able to drive straight past the Warlord, who was on the other side of a high seperating wall that goes around the outside of the refinery.  They got round the back and shot up the Sentinels.

THe warlord carried on through the refinery (Marching), and emerged out an entrance to end up behind my KoS, Normal warband and stompa mob.  If he could rally his Mech Co. he'd have a crossfire.  He didn't.

What he didn't realise was that he was now in charge range of my Gargant, who charged straight away.  In the first round, he hit with all 8 attacks, and I failed 5 saving throws (even after re-rolls).  I hit back and he failed 3 saving rolls.  I also hit with my MW assault weapon causing another two hits.  5 each.  (I was also on fire) So we went into another round of combat. (both titans were DC8)  This time he inflicted 1 hit, and I destroyed his Titan (where are the catastrophic results for killing a Titan?)

We were both shocked how easily my Gargant had dispatched him, and he decided that next time the Warlord would stay right at the back of the board.  Using its long range weapons.

After that It went downhill for him.  The first couple of turns were going well for him.  He had most objectives, killed a lot of Orks (though we then realised I had plenty more where they came from) and was almost flanking me.

However, I turned the game round at the start of turn 4. (which he kindly pointed out happens everytime we play.  He gets the early lead, only to lose at the end miserably.  He asked how I do it,  I didn't have an answer!  :-:   )

After breaking his Mech Co. in the centre (which also never regrouped)  I charged my KoS round to the rear of the rough riders and took them out.  At the same time I was able to then take control of two objectives they were holding.  My Normal Warband stayed in the centre holding another Objective.  My BB had forced the Sentinles to retreat as only 1 could fire.  And they were then just round the corner from his withdrawing Mech Co.  His SHT were unharmed, as were his Hydras.  They were also out of the game, as when I saw him coming down the flank, I went the other way.  Thay never really had a target all game, just the rear of my big warband.  But this was where I kept my Grotz.

We looked at the V.C. at the end of turn 4.  I had destroyed his dearest unit (Warlord) captured two of his objetives, meaning I won.

Good Job really, since we had been playing for around 5-6 hours!!!  It took longer as I was teaching him and trying to find stuff in the pages of rules.


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 Post subject: Base preferance
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:20 pm 
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Things we learnt-

My Warboss has special rules - i.e. the leader ability and re-roll failed initiative test once per phase.

A large Mech Co. is hard to shift, especially with crappy Ork shooting.

Stormboyz killed themselves yet again on an assault they initiate.  I'll get it right one day.

A Warlord is poo in HtH.  Keep it away from Assaulty things.

My Ork Army has nothing to take out big natsies with firing.

SHT Co. is probably a waste.  A Tank Co. would be better.  Maybe with 1 Shadow Sword in support.

BB did poo again, though they were in a position to cause trouble later in the game if it had carried on.

Double orders are essential to get an Ork force moving, but they are then super poo at shooting.

************************

There's more we learnt, but I've forgot now.  :L

So, I have left my Imperial Guard army with him, and he's gonna paint it up ready for our next game.

The most important thing gained from this game !?!?!?!?????


He thinks Epic is the best GW game he has played!!!!!!!  :blues:

And is gonna collect Imperial Guard as soon as its released!!!  He also wants a rematch over Xmas, and wants to try out smaller titans (warhounds and reavers) rather than one expensive one.


RESULT!!!!  :cool:


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 Post subject: Base preferance
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 4:10 pm 
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Sounds like you have a convert on your hands.   Yeaaaa!!


my 2 cents,


iblisdrax

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 Post subject: Base preferance
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 6:06 pm 
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The problem with Heavy Tanks or heavy weapons in general is they draw a lot of fire, because they are so powerful.  In many games I have played in the past, they didn't last very long, whether I used them or they were used against me !  They died sooner or later and rarely if ever, survived to game's end.  :{

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 Post subject: Base preferance
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 9:02 pm 
Purestrain
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>> SHT Co. is probably a waste.  A Tank Co. would be better.  Maybe with 1 Shadow Sword in support.

Keep in mind that a SHT Co is 500 versus 650 for a Russ Co.  Of course, the Russ should be better.  You can take an SHT Co and another SHT (4 SHTs and 2 activations) for almost the came points (700 versus 650).

IG strategic suggestions -

Keep some support near the SHTs.  The rough riders should have been practically intermingled with them.  That would have done a couple things.

First, if an anemy wishes to assault, he has to CC with the first unit he enters ZoC with.  Since the roughriders are scouts with 10cm ZoC, they will be first.  That forces any assaults to go to the CC specialists, with the SHT FF specialists in support.

Second, it allows the formations to advance together.  Most opponents will worry about the SHTs and leave the roughriders to be able to assault a target of opportunity, probably with SHT support.

The same thing should happen with the Titan and the Sentinels.  With titan and sentinels being walkers, they are a perfect match for using exactly like the SHTs/Roughriders, only moving through terrain to get the terrain bonus.  They are also scouts with big ZoC, helping prevent the flanking, end-around BB and KoS manuevers.

For the titan square-off, the Sentinels could have initiated an assault with the titan as support.  The gargant must defend itself against the sentinels because they are assaulting, while the titan pours all its damage into the gargant.  Even in a worst case scenario, the sentinels would at least get to add their attacks.

I think the Hydras were probably a bit expensive for the firepower since you were sans air cover, but I know your choices were limited.

My overall strategy would have been to maintain the IG line with the Mech Inf and Hydras.  Use the SHT/RR as one strong flank and the titan/sent as the other in a classic pincer move, reducing the Ork mobility advantage as it slowly constricted.

Ork strategy -

Always plan to assault.  A very nice tactic is to double move a KoS to within 15cm and fire, then retain initiative and assault with a second unit.  All the KoS is then in FF range to support the assault.

Outside of that, it sounds as if you had pretty solid tactics.


Hope that is useful.

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 Post subject: Base preferance
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 11:23 pm 
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Hi!

It seems that the main goal of the excersize, to interest someone new in epic has succeeded. Everything else is gravy... :D

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 Post subject: Base preferance
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 10:49 am 
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Thanks for the in-put guys.

Neal- What you say sounds good advice.  My opponent, despite this being his first ever epic game, actually used the tactics pretty muchas you describe.  His Baneblades and Rough Riders were intermingled as they advanced down the flank.

It was only when he stopped the rough riders to hold onto two objectives, and carried on the advance with the SHT and Hydras now in support, that I could assault/shoot the rough riders effectively.

My opponent actually had a good grasp of the tactics.  He also said he found it a much more tactical and strategic game than 40K (not hard) and could picture things easier.

His down fall really was my ability to avoid his SHT most of the game.  They had very few targets, and no real input.  This was due to the board terrain.  As I looked at the board, my left flank was a grassy strip all the way to his deployment zone from mine.  However, there was also a large warehouse type building running about 80% of the distance.  This meant once he started down that flank, I could go the other side of the building avoiding his guns.  It took until turn 4 for him to reach the other end ready to swing round into the rear of my army.  By then I had got two V.C. though and ended the game.

His Warlord did start the game with the Sentinels near by, but they turned back to take hold of the objective placed on his table edge.  The Warlord then advanced unsupported.  It didn't really need support either, as the terrain of the refinery is quite dense.  It could position itself so that only one formation could trace a bead to the Warlord at any time.  He would shoot it first though.

His downfall was believing the Warlord was nigh on impenetrable.  And to be honest if he had kept his distance, it would have been.  The only way I could take it down was in an assault with my Gargant, and even then we were both shocked how easily it happened.

Next time he would prefer to use multiple Titans that can support each other.  2 Warhounds or 1 and a reaver.

Yep, Ideally the Hydras would have been left at home in favour of something else.  But it was due to lack of options.  They were excellent at mowing down troops though.


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 Post subject: Base preferance
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 5:27 pm 
Purestrain
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Cool.

As far as the support formations leaving the WEs, I think thats a tough lesson to learn.  It falls under a "never leave your wingman" kind of thing.  You don't so much need to hold the objectives with the IG as deny them to your opponent while your firepower eats away at them.

I would think a Warhound and a Reaver working to support each other would be a difficult nut to crack.  The weak link would be the Warhound's vulnerability to ranged fire.  Still, if you take that into account it should work well.

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 Post subject: Base preferance
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 11:54 pm 
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Hi!

Perhaps at some point he and you should "switch" armies? Give him a feel for the "other side" and he may adjust tactics accordingly.

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 Post subject: Base preferance
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 12:46 pm 
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This thread has been archived.

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