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Dropship update!
Shadow Hunter	Post subject: Dropship update! Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 9:13 am
Brood Brother Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2003 11:41 am Posts: 1747 Location: Norton Canes, Cannock, Staffs, UK	Right, I had a look at the black legion list last night (more importantly all the 1Ksons relevant stuff). BoC for the stands is fine by me, I only mentioned DB as thats what I use in 40K for my rubric squads.  I suppose with the horrors/flamers already having doombolt, you dont need it on the sons too. Its a good idea using the marine termies for rubric sons, and shouldn't be too difficult to give them a little head dress.  Do you think adding BoC shot to the chosen would be enough to half the squad size? What stats do you want for the tzeentch flier?  I remember that it was as good as a nightwing in epic40K, but thats all I can offer. What do you think about the dread?  How about reducing its CC ability and giving it another weapon?  Maybe replace the autocannon and powerfist with twin lascannon and missilelauncher. The Defiler and LoC will be the CC monsters.  The Dreads can stnad back with the Sons laying down fire power. Do you think the 1K sons should have a 3+ firefight?  I was surprised it was 4+ same as the rest. They should have something to represent the high percentage of psykers.  Something like cancelling other armies abilities on a roll of 4+ or something might be nice (thinking off the top of my head).  So, for example, when Eldar try to steal the initiative, you can use your Psychic powers to try and stop it. I like the thought of disc riders.  It would give a unique look.  With all the vehicles, I dont think the variety will be as bad as I first thought.  I know they are supposed to be limited. I'd like to see your list, If you dont get it up (ooer     ) then email it me please to monkey_tin@hotmail.com
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nealhunt	Post subject: Dropship update! Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 4:10 pm
Purestrain Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm Posts: 9617 Location: Nashville, TN, USA	I e-mailed it. ?Give it a look and let me know. >> Do you think adding BoC shot to the chosen would be enough to half the squad size? They are rare, too. ?Since they are only available as attachments rather than independent formations, I don't think reducing the squad size is that important. >> What stats do you want for the tzeentch flier? I made some up from memory. ?My idea on them is that Tzeentch should be second only to Eldar in airpower, but that they have a bigger emphasis on ground attack than air superiority. The Doomwings come in 3s, the Firelords in pairs. ?I gave the Firelords a total of 3BP so that a pair is the same as a pair of Marauders, but a single one is still wicked on its own. ? >> What do you think about the dread? ? I kept the autocannon, traded the powerfist for an ML, and I am treating the warp flame vehicle upgrade as +1 Extra attacks. ?This gives it 2 attacks in CC, but the MW is gone, which sounds about right. I also gave an option to upgrade the Armor formation with Warp flame for +25/vehicle. ?A fully tricked out formation - 6 preds, 4 LR, all with flames - comes out to an even 1000 points, but it is wicked at distance and in FF, and darn respectable in CC. >> Do you think the 1K sons should have a 3+ firefight? I think it's something to consider. ?Unfortunately, it's part of that Slow and Steady thing, which would also mean cutting their movement if we wanted to integrate it. ?Hmm... >> They should have something to represent the high percentage of psykers. I gave them +1 initiative (2d6+1 total), and the heavy weapons are all really psychic powers. ?I think that is enough character without making them too fiddly. For the Storm Lords, I replaced 1 weapon system on each titan with an Inferno Cannon in keeping with the Tzeentch/flame connection. ========== Cybershadow: ?I don't have access to a web page. ?If you would like to post my list to one, it would be appreciated. ========== I also posted it to the EpicA mailing list for those who are members. _________________ Neal
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CyberShadow	Post subject: Dropship update! Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 11:22 pm
Swarm Tyrant Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm Posts: 9348 Location: Singapore	OK. I am at home right now, but I think that the Thousand Sons PDF file (freshly stolen from Pixelgeek, who transformed your original file), should now be... ...here... (I hope that this works!    ) _________________ https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond. https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.
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nealhunt	Post subject: Dropship update! Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2003 4:50 pm
Purestrain Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm Posts: 9617 Location: Nashville, TN, USA	Cool.  Thanks. Wow, 12+ hours and no flames yet... _________________ Neal
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dafrca	Post subject: Dropship update! Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2003 2:04 am
Brood Brother Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 6:02 pm Posts: 10956 Location: Burbank, CA, USA	Neal, Wouldn't want you to have to go too long without Flames... So here's some...:p dafrca (Who knows he is being silly, but can't seem to help himself) _________________ "Every Man is a But Spark in the Darkness"               - Cities of Death, page 59 Come fight me, if you dare...... http://dd-janks.mybrute.com
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stormseer	Post subject: Dropship update! Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2003 1:32 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 9:52 pm Posts: 4598 Location: Suffolk, UK.	heh heh.. lol, madness..... _________________ www.darkrealmminiatures.com
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Periodic	Post subject: Dropship update! Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2003 6:12 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2003 6:54 am Posts: 70	Ooh ooh, me likey alot. In fact, I think I like it more then Jervis' black legion list. It's got more personality, and it's better presented (hooray for  .pdf's), and it really feels very close to what you'd expect an official list to look like. Minus a few spelling errors, inconsistencies, and imbalances of course. Here's a few ideas that I'd like to throw about though: Are you sure bolt of change warrants a MW5+? I mean, if I remember correctly (and this is of dubious probability), it isn't significantly more efficient then a lascannon, and a lascannon is still just AT5+. Perhaps MW6+ or AP5+/AT5+ would be more appropriate. Instead of doing the guard 1-in-2 heavy weapons thing, why not make the the sorceror a character upgrade that can be purchased for every 2 thousand sons units in the detachment at a modest fee? He would bring with him the Bolt of Change power. So the basic thousand sons detachment would have 6 stands and have an option for 3 (or 2 if you count the sorceror lord) sorceror upgrades. The Disc Riders detachments seem a little assault oriented. The models themselves are just guys with cloaks and a bolter. Mine are also mounted one to a stand. How many guys is this statline supposed to represent? It seems to me they should be less direct assault oriented, and perhaps more firefight/sorcery oriented. It'd be cool if you worked in a way to throw in a daemon prince. I wanna break out Magnus and his EYE BEAM OF DEATH +4. Perhaps a 'council of sorcerors' formation would be cool. It'd allow you to upgrade a stand and incorporate Magnus, or upgrade them all to ride discs and give you a way to incorporate them crazy disc disc riders. Cool list though. -Periodic.
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Jimbo	Post subject: Dropship update! Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2003 10:22 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:01 pm Posts: 3495 Location: Wessex	Quote (dafrca @ 12 2003 July,02:04) So here's some...:p giggles _________________ Jimbo Felix's Gaming Pages Felix's Gaming Pages Blog Almost Always Right...
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dafrca	Post subject: Dropship update! Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2003 1:17 am
Brood Brother Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 6:02 pm Posts: 10956 Location: Burbank, CA, USA	I couldn't help myself   Back on topic, I do like what you have started here guys. dafrca _________________ "Every Man is a But Spark in the Darkness"               - Cities of Death, page 59 Come fight me, if you dare...... http://dd-janks.mybrute.com
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Shadow Hunter	Post subject: Dropship update! Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2003 9:36 am
Brood Brother Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2003 11:41 am Posts: 1747 Location: Norton Canes, Cannock, Staffs, UK	*phew* is it getting hot in here?   Some good points periodic, The MW5+ BoC was taken straight from JJ Black Legion list.  In there he gives the LoC that power with those stats. I guess its for game balance.  I know its stats are slightly worse than a Lascannon, but I suppose they need that stat line as they lack those sort of weapons otherwise.  Also, it would probably incorperate the fact that sorcerers can use Thralls, which allows them to shoot the power up to 4 times. Including Magnus would be really cool.  He was in the previous Epics wasn't he? What was he like then?
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nealhunt	Post subject: Dropship update! Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2003 5:01 pm
Purestrain Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm Posts: 9617 Location: Nashville, TN, USA	>> Ooh ooh, me likey alot... Minus a few spelling errors... Thanks. I didn't do a hard edit on it, because it is a draft. >> Are you sure that the bolt of change warrants a MW5+?

You have a point. That's the BoC stat from Jervis's Black Legion list, as Shadow Hunter mentioned. While it might not be perfectly in line with 40K, I do like the effect.

>> Why not make the the sorceror a character upgrade that can be purchased for every 2 of something?

This was to line up with 40K. Basically a TSons army gets its' commanders/sorcerers for free. Also, to align with the background fluff, the Rubric TSons are automatons that take quite a bit of management. Either way, rules or fluff, there will virtually always be sorcerers present.

>> The Disc Riders detachments seem a little assault oriented... just guys with cloaks and a bolter.

Again, lining up with the more recent 40K stuff. The discs add attacks in HTH. Also, the only way to field disc riders are as Chosen. They are all sorcerers, but the majority of psychic powers are 40k-scale stuff, rather than BoC level heavy weapons substitutes. That translates into strong assault. They could arguably have a higher firefight score, though, now that I think about it.

>> It'd be cool if you worked in a way to throw in a daemon prince. I wanna break out Magnus and his EYE BEAM OF DEATH +4. >>Perhaps a 'council of sorcerors' formation would be cool.

Heh. I think including a daemon prince as an alternate to the sorcerer lord would be fine, but I dislike the idea of taking Magnus himself for the same reason I dislike Ragnar Blackmane or Gazhkull Thraka or other characters. They are one person in a battle of potentially millions.

I like the Council of Sorcerers idea. It would match up with a Sorcerer Lord and Chosen Retinue in 40K. Rather than a separate formation, though, I think it would be a good upgrade. Something like 2 stands, BoC for each, high CC/FF, and the expectation that the Character upgrade for the formation would be used on one of them.

Great feedback.?Please give me a bit of time to think on it...