The Demiurg |
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netepic
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Post subject: The Demiurg  Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 4:25 pm |
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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 4:26 pm
Posts: 7016
Location: Southfields, London, England
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Blimming marvelous work - loved the background! The rules seem solid - I do declare that a round of applause is in order!
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Moscovian
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Post subject: The Demiurg Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 7:27 pm |
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Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:32 pm
Posts: 6414
Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania USA
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Well I can tell you the Thunderfires can use their FF. I know because they used it on me. 
ePilgrim and got a 3000 point game in and these thunderfires participated in fire support. So maybe the line does need to be removed to avoid confusion.
I agree on the 45 degree thing - shouldn't be all around but 30 degrees is not as playable unless you bring your protractor to the game board. 
FYI I am unsure if the Hearthguard Cavalry need to be changed for fluff reasons, but I can tell you a few things about them:
1. They are tough.
2. They are not overly tough.
This last game showed them in the field but they didn't play a massive part toward the victory. I believe a batrep is coming, so I won't ruin the ending...
_________________ author of Syncing Forward and other stories...It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.
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epilgrim
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Post subject: The Demiurg Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 2:34 am |
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Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2003 12:28 pm
Posts: 362
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Hena,
thanks for the Q and A response.
M is gloating because he too suggested the 45* shift for the Battle Cars...fine by me either way, anybody else have any opinions?
As far as the support weapons...are the stats a problem with anyone else? Shouuld they be more like the Collector's Section or the Baran Siegemasters?
7. your probably right the stat line does make the note redundant doesn't it. It can FF and CC (just ask Moscovian  ).
8. I did not realise the wording was confusing...hmm anybody else think this needs a makeover?
9. Oh nononono...the Sandhogs (A.S.G.) are very much infiltrators...'...natural sprinters...very dangerous over short distances...' (HAHAHAHA!!!)
this army like every other gets one unit with this ability. remember...as I wrote it natives on a heavy gravity world would have faster reactions in normal gravity...even if they are somewhat smaller.
_________________
Squat/Demiurg Army Co-Champion (in cahoots with Jaldon)
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epilgrim
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Post subject: The Demiurg Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 4:49 am |
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Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2003 12:28 pm
Posts: 362
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Tom,
thank you for your compliments, they are much appreciated!
Steve
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Squat/Demiurg Army Co-Champion (in cahoots with Jaldon)
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mintroll
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Post subject: The Demiurg Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 4:20 pm |
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Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:51 am
Posts: 199
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I'm a real big EpicA fan, it's my favourite edition of the game to date (still a place in my heart for SM 2nd ed though).
I don't care if you call them squats, demiurg or bob; I like the models. I'm happy someone has written a list for them, though it wasn't easy to find - or may be I'm just stupid.
I'm trying to get some models off ebay at the moment (not cheap mind) and I just wanted to say well done on the effort you've put into the list. I hope SG put it into the vault.
I'm looking forward to giving it a try, if I can get hold of enough minis; I seem consistently out bit on squat goodies - so there are obviously enough people who must see this list.
I assume you'll post any updated version to this forum?
_________________ Experience is the fool's best teacher; the wise do not need it. http://epica.2-72.co.uk
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epilgrim
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Post subject: The Demiurg Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 11:35 am |
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Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2003 12:28 pm
Posts: 362
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minitroll,
thanks for the support and I hope you get to play them soon! To date the list has proved to be very balanced requiring few changes so far.
V2 which is a much cleaner read and has more consistant formating is almost done. It will be posted here on EpiComms.
please let me know how you feel they do on the battlefield.
_________________
Squat/Demiurg Army Co-Champion (in cahoots with Jaldon)
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mintroll
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Post subject: The Demiurg Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 7:22 pm |
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Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:51 am
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| Quote (epilgrim @ 11 April 2006 (11:35)) | | ... I hope you get to play them soon! |
So do I...
as a footnote, my ebay username is redclaw8, I'm currently bidding on lots of the squat lots. I expect no one to hold back bidding, but on reading the other thread about that other lot getting broken up and sold on, makes my heart bleed (perhaps a bit over dramatic), I actually will give them a good home.
There were a few questions about the list:
1) why ever take Termites? Since trading 2 for 1 into Moles costs nothing, and Moles have better stats? I might be mis-reading how the upgrades are working
1b) I think you might want to clarify the army list section slightly, as unlike every other army list the 'support' formations (those limited in number by the core formations) can get upgrades as well.
2) I'm slightly confused on the wording for the Colossus With Gyrocopter works. The max range of the Colossus is 120cm, does the 'copter need to have line of sight? if so, at what range, as it has the 75cm ranges weapon. Sorry, but I'm just a bit confused.
I don't have much else to add yet, until I get some minis. Amazingly, squats was the one army I didn't collect back in the day... how my wallet regrets that now._________________ Experience is the fool's best teacher; the wise do not need it. http://epica.2-72.co.uk
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epilgrim
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Post subject: The Demiurg Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 11:56 pm |
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Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2003 12:28 pm
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good luck on the army, I have over 25,000 point of Demiurg myself!
as to your questions:
1 Termites are there if that is what you have...each mole replaces 2 termites. Although the mole stats are better a bunch of termites take more kills to break. Odds wise it actually ends up the same, but I like the termite surfacing model best of all the TBM!
1b the upgrades are very carefully written and no one has provided a 'broken' example in playtesting...can you see a problem? let me know.
2 the colossus is due a redux for V2...here is the revision:
Special: Iron Eagle Spotter: A single Iron Eagle is associated with the Colossus to act as an artillery spotter. Attach this gyrocopter to any non-MCF or non-TBM/Cradle formation. The Iron Eagle acts normally with the formation it?s attached to and is allocated hits from shooting as per the core rules for shooting at a formation. While the Iron Eagle is in play it allows the Colossus to fire its Plasma Missiles indirectly unless the Colossus marches or is suppressed. However, the Colossus does not get the +1 to hit unless it remains stationary as per 1.9.8 (Barrages). While Spotting the Iron Eagle must have a LOS to the target and the target must be within the range of the Colossus (max 120cm). This ability does not allow the Colossus to split fire.
Thanks for the careful reading and comments
_________________
Squat/Demiurg Army Co-Champion (in cahoots with Jaldon)
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mintroll
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Post subject: The Demiurg Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:18 pm |
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Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:51 am
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I have a question about tunnellers, well a few actually.
Is the idea that the formation(s) begin turn 1 on the table - the tunnellers on the cradles. Which then need to be activated with a roll. To be like activating space ships.
In this case, can the enemy destroy tunnellers before they are launched? How would this work, with the tunnellers being transported in the cradles perhaps?
What if they fail their roll, would the 'move' order be the equivalent launch, or are they like space ships and must attempt the following turn - how would this affect the turn on which they would appear?
Summary: I think I don't quite understand how the tunnellers work.
_________________ Experience is the fool's best teacher; the wise do not need it. http://epica.2-72.co.uk
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epilgrim
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Post subject: The Demiurg Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:38 pm |
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Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2003 12:28 pm
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hmmm, good spot!
As we have been playing it, the TBM MUST pass their activation in order to tunnel.
If failed the TBM sit on the cradles. The cradles and TBM get a Hold action. If attacked they die, save and acumulate BM like everything else. The cradles, thier TBM and the transported units are all individual units.
In a worse case scenario, you could have your infantry exit the TBM while still in your DZ and launch them seperately (desperate measures to be sure) if it seemed unlikely that they will launch in time to be of use.
Regardless of which turn you launch the movement rules are consistant (1 full turn to the middle, 2 turns to the other side).
There had been some discussion of a specific move rate per turn, but I found that this takes away their surprise factor and requires a rule that runs contrary to the exisiting rule in the E:A book. Keeping that rule and then developing the unit and formation rules for TBM and cradles was a much better solution.
With all this at risk the TBM are almost always an early activation (in case you need the re-roll), unless you have more juicy targets (Goliaths) and a proper AA screen.
Hope this addresses you questions...BTW congrats on the army auction, great stuff you got!
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Squat/Demiurg Army Co-Champion (in cahoots with Jaldon)
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mintroll
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Post subject: The Demiurg Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 2:50 pm |
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Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:51 am
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Cheers, Ebay is great some days, I won one lot of squats - coming from the US, can't wait to get them. Bidding on a few other ones as well.
Answers some of my question - I just want to clarify the way the three distinct formations would act: the cradles, the tunnellers and the troops being transported.
Since the russion doll isn't allowed, the troops are transported inside the tunnellers. The tunnellers aren't transported by the cradles (though that would be a neat way to do it)
Do the tunnellers sit 'on top' of the cradles, how do they interact... a deep strike force could shoot at the cradles and destroy them - would this destroy the tunneller?
until launch are the cradles and tunnellers the same formation? That would make most sense. with hits working as normal - I suppose a hit on the cradle then the tunneller from front to back.
I'm sorry I can't think of a good way to help word the rules (as you intend), I know it's hard to word rules - especially for the likes of me; but I'll be happy to test any attempt against my IQ.
I was just thinking up a list - a nice deep strike list with lots of tunnellers, would be risky. A SM terminator teleport attack, or even an emeny spaceship barrage could be painful. Though it would be fun for a completely tunneller deployed force, you wouldn't win - but as a one off.
_________________ Experience is the fool's best teacher; the wise do not need it. http://epica.2-72.co.uk
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epilgrim
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Post subject: The Demiurg Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 11:55 pm |
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Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2003 12:28 pm
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hopefully I will address this as accurately as possible.
A formation that includes TBM must be deployed on the board during setup. TBM must start on the cradles (transported units are off-board while embarked).
Until the Formation activates and begins Tunneling, the TBM, cradles and transported units count as one formation.
Once the TBM are launched the cradles become thier own formation.
Once the TBM surface they become thier own formation with a move of 0cm. As long as the infantry remain on board they are still part of the TBM formation.
As soon as any transported unit exit a TBM, the TBM become a seperate formation.
You are correct - The TBM/cradles are vulnerable to any type of deepstrike (teleport, planetfall, ground attack). The best defensive tactic is to screen them with other formations or even war engines as well as protecting them with AA.
The obvious best tactic is to launch the TBM on your first activation, especially if you get the first turn!
An all TBM army would be similar to a SM Planetfall, fun, but not always a game winner. Give a go regardless!
_________________
Squat/Demiurg Army Co-Champion (in cahoots with Jaldon)
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mintroll
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Post subject: The Demiurg Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:15 pm |
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Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:51 am
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That all makes sense - though I do feel you might want to add some of that explanation into version 2.
My final query as regards to tunnellers (bet you wish I'd not appeared now) is about casualties and engages. So before launch, TBM is on the cradle. They are all one formation,
but if shooting at a formation of say two moles on cradles, how would 3 hits be assigned? (i'd guess: cradle, TBM, cradle)
If engaged before launch, if an enemy gets into base contact with a cradle - does the cradle use is CC and the TBM use its FF (it's not vital for the current TBMs since they have CC/FF as 6+/6+)
Now the real one, if engaged, can you trap the transported unit inside the TBM (as you can with all other transports) - as this would need you to get into base contact with the TBM.
Oh, and if you jump out before launch - can you jump back in and launch again? For example, you could be engaged, counter charge out of the TBM; then next turn the cradles move over these disembarked troops (picking them up) and then launch the TBM in the same turn.
An issue here would be, are they separate formations then? since only war engine transports can carry units not in their formation - problem with the termites and moles if they become their own formation.
I'm sorry for being a pain.
_________________ Experience is the fool's best teacher; the wise do not need it. http://epica.2-72.co.uk
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