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Army Champions coming over?
MaksimSmelchak
 Post subject: Army Champions coming over?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 6:43 pm 
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Hi Zac AKA PG,

Thanks for dropping us a line. It's nice to hear what you think.

Shalom,
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MaksimSmelchak
 Post subject: Army Champions coming over?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 6:45 pm 
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Hi Zac,

Zac: Messageboards also typically have very bad search functions and I typically need to search for some particular threads and even phrases in threads so search is very critical.


I solved that problem by organizing the threads at the last forum. I can find anything I need very quickly.

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pixelgeek
 Post subject: Army Champions coming over?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 6:57 pm 
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Quote (MaksimSmelchak @ 04 2005 July,10:45)
I solved that problem by organizing the threads at the last forum. I can find anything I need very quickly.

That does work for material that is fairly fresh but on my machine I can search across a lot of material very quickly, view the results and then do further searching on those results to narrow the search to a very small number of possible messages.

I can also flag material to read later which is next to impossible in a messageboard. This is very handy for large battle reports that need to be read and re-read to see what facotrs are at play in a battle.

The ultimate issue, IMO, for a messaageboard is topic creep and topic hijacking.  There isn't any way to stop that sort of thing and so even with well organised topics you still need a good search tool.

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pixelgeek
 Post subject: Army Champions coming over?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 7:30 pm 
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Quote (Charax @ 04 2005 July,11:05)
Well, regardless of if it's developed on an official or unofficial messageboard, or a mailing list, I'll never use the CSM list to represent my Death Guard force

I'd certainly not recommend it. Faction specific forces such as that relly need their own list and need to be tested as a distinct list.

Neal's TSons list is a good example. It has a number of issues quite speciic to it and I'd assume that a Death Guard list would have similar issues specific to it as well.

The CSM list is meant to be a fairly generic multi-faction list so it will probably not work very well if you try to model something like teh Death Guard using it.

There is no specific time-table for any other Chaos lists

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CyberShadow
 Post subject: Army Champions coming over?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 7:42 pm 
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Quote (pixelgeek @ 04 2005 July,18:57)
The ultimate issue, IMO, for a messaageboard is topic creep and topic hijacking. ?There isn't any way to stop that sort of thing and so even with well organised topics you still need a good search tool.

Well, thank goodness something like that never happens here! ?}:) ?

Anyway, thanks for dropping by PG, and please do keep us updated as to the progress of the development of the list, as I am sure that there are many people who would like a heads-up on the latest version.

I agree that it does seem a little unfair to take a list designed for one purpose and try to use it for a different force. That said, I frequently use similar lists as a basis for others, but only as a 'dropping off point' to give a guide for a totally new list to keep balance across forces. Anyway, if you do come up with a Death Guard list, I would like to see it.

Thanks.

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pixelgeek
 Post subject: Army Champions coming over?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 7:53 pm 
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Quote (CyberShadow @ 04 2005 July,11:42)
Anyway, if you do come up with a Death Guard list, I would like to see it.

Once the CSM list is done and the OGBM list is finalised then we can have a look at producing official Chaos variant lists.

I guess it depends on what people want to see

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CyberShadow
 Post subject: Army Champions coming over?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 12:09 am 
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Well... if we are taking requests... Emperors Children! Emperors Children! Emperors Children!  :D

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dafrca
 Post subject: Army Champions coming over?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 12:34 am 
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Quote (CyberShadow @ 04 2005 July,16:09)
Well... if we are taking requests... Emperors Children! Emperors Children! Emperors Children! ?:D

... or maybe Emperors Children.  :;):

dafrca

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pixelgeek
 Post subject: Army Champions coming over?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 6:57 am 
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Quote (dafrca @ 04 2005 July,22:32)
Believe me, I was the AMTL Champion at the start, remember?

How did you manage to wade through the volumes of material that list generated?

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dafrca
 Post subject: Army Champions coming over?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:19 am 
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Quote (pixelgeek @ 04 2005 July,22:57)
Quote (dafrca @ 04 2005 July,22:32)
Believe me, I was the AMTL Champion at the start, remember?

How did you manage to wade through the volumes of material that list generated?

It was not easy.  :oo

The truth is, it was starting to damage my real life. Family and work both were being effected by the amount of time I needed to spend just reading the posts. That is why I needed to step down.  :{

I did not want to, but my family and work needed to be ahead of my "hobby".

dafrca

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Army Champions coming over?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 10:00 am 
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I think a lot of it also were lots of little posts from people (like me) who hadn't learnt to respond to multiple posts with one post :) And then had to take a while to learn how to quote!

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CyberShadow
 Post subject: Army Champions coming over?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:54 am 
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Quote (dafrca @ 05 2005 July,00:38)
When JJ and the folks at SG gave each Champion the right to decide how things were to be done. It sanctioned the champions up to and including doing the list themselves.

I think that this is a very important point. In effect, JJ put the control of the development of a force in the hands of the Champion. This reflects on SG and also on sales, so carries a responsibility.

It is also of note that different forces attract different players and naturally gravitate towards different methods of development. I think that the worst thing to do is to try to make all the lists develop in the same way and via the same medium. Some lists need a 'steering group', some a single controller and some have more community decisions - and this can change over time.

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dafrca
 Post subject: Army Champions coming over?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:23 pm 
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Quote (The_Real_Chris @ 05 2005 July,02:00)
I think a lot of it also were lots of little posts from people (like me) who hadn't learnt to respond to multiple posts with one post :) And then had to take a while to learn how to quote!

Although the number of posts were high, there was a lot of information and ideas being debated as well.

I could have ignored the "me too" or "I agree" posts. But there were some very long posts with debates going. Took a long time to read all of them and then digest what was being said and why.  :)

In the long run, I believe it helped the list but it was very hard keeping up with the flood.  :cool:

dafrca

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Army Champions coming over?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:43 pm 
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Quote (CyberShadow @ 05 2005 July,00:09)
Well... if we are taking requests... Emperors Children! Emperors Children! Emperors Children!  :D

The EC are probably the easiest to run using the BL-list.  They would probably have a mix of standard loads and noise marines, which BL has to have.  Proxy a few knights as Predators and Questors as Ferals and you're pretty much done.  If you want to play EC, but still contribute playtest feedback, I would encourage you to do so.

I know Audrey/Wraeththu is quite keen on developing an EC list as a variant once the core list is set.

I think an EC-specific list would be incredibly easy to knock out.  Take the BL list, drop the new WEs.  Replace them with Knights and Questor/Subjugator (with a slight point bump for improved strategy and initiative) and you're done.  It would certainly be good enough for friendly games.

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Army Champions coming over?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 3:00 pm 
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We have always on this site went by "DO what works for You!" ?:;): ?I understand about "official" lists, I say go for it. ?But unless there is a concern about Tournament Rules (and I imagine for some there is), Jervis has always said use the rules as a "guide", otherwise. ?I've been playing EPIC since '90, so have been thru all the iterations, and never played any version "out-of-the-box". I don't like Knights, we rarely fielded Titans and if we did it would only be 1 or 2 per side (SM1 25% rule), and for example, I don't see any reason for SM/CSM specific lists (I think SM1 and 2 handled that ? correctly/well. ?However, what we do in our "War Room", should not affect what you do. So arguing over what you or I like is like arguing over who has the prettiest girl, smartest dog, fastest car etc.... It just "don't" matter ... do what works for you ... unless you are involved in an "official game" at a convention or something and then you are at the Game Masters' mercies ... Play a your own risk ! ? :laugh: ?Oh yeah, remember ... it's just a "fricking" game with toy soldiers ... I've got more important things to get upset about in life (and do !) then if you use Knights on your board to play a game ! :D




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